Sixth Edition, Release Announcement Options

[hermit]

I guess.

[Moirdryd]

Can it be said that once an attacker scores a hit, the amount of damage you actually take is more than just armour but the advantage you assume?
So the chance to soak up that damage can be expressed with edge.
For example, A suprised defender may not be able to resist the same damage as an aware defender due to loss of advantage.

But you're not getting edge for wearing armour, you're getting edge only IF your DR is 4 better than the AR and even then that 1pt of Edge is a re-roll on your Body, if you choose to spend it that way. It's a really really bad way of abstracting things and the spell is simply better than any physical armour.

[sk8bcn]

I agree.

Let's say I play a character with low defense. The fact I wear or not an armor makes no difference against a good shooter/fighter? It's counter intuitive.




That being said, I do think that the spell working differently from an armor only shows a lack of consistency. I don't think it's deliberate (if it is, it's even dumber).

[Jaid]

But you're not getting edge for wearing armour, you're getting edge only IF your DR is 4 better than the AR and even then that 1pt of Edge is a re-roll on your Body, if you choose to spend it that way. It's a really really bad way of abstracting things and the spell is simply better than any physical armour.

if by re-roll you mean re-roll for a single die, that is. the power of each point of edge got nerfed because of how easy it is to get. you'd need to get shot *four* times (and gain edge from each one, which based on typical attack rating values we've seen is pretty unlikely) to be able to re-roll all failures on a single test (which need not be a damage resistance test of any sort, it could just as easily be a test to climb an elevator shaft or summon a spirit).

[Moirdryd]

Yep, it's just plain bad

[Moirdryd]

Yep, it's just plain bad

[Nath]

I wonder if SR6 successor to Fields of Fire/Cannon Companion/Arsenal will feature an optional rule for armor that will involve adding rating to the dice pool, or if they will find such idea unnecessary.

[binarywraith]

But you're not getting edge for wearing armour, you're getting edge only IF your DR is 4 better than the AR and even then that 1pt of Edge is a re-roll on your Body, if you choose to spend it that way. It's a really really bad way of abstracting things and the spell is simply better than any physical armour.

Yep, as it is a re-roll, not an additional dice, which is in all ways inferior to the Armor spell which is likely to provide both Edge for re-rolls (due to increased Defense Rating) and provides straight Body dice as well.

[Sendaz]

Post on Matrix for SR6 is up now:

https://www.shadowrunsixthworld.com/2019/07...-matrix-in-sr6/

[Iduno]

Post on Matrix for SR6 is up now:

https://www.shadowrunsixthworld.com/2019/07...-matrix-in-sr6/

The first 2 paragraphs make it sound like "SR4 matrix, before Unwired." Don't worry, I'm sure they can figure out how to over-complicate and under-think it.

Third paragraph says they're making a change to the way things already are, so they aren't letting lack of rules knowledge slow them down.

Actually, the only changes I'm reading is datajack is now necessary, and also probably going to be more expensive and essence-requiring, and they've found a way to screw up technomancers even harder.

[tete]

On first pass of the 6e QuickStart

The matrix is great, I'm honestly afraid the core book will have a worse version.
Edge is on the right track but has some weird arbitrary things going on. It might play ok though. I get a very old school combat pool vibe from it, which is something that has been missing for two editions.
Magic, slight improvement over 5e.
Combat over all I'm on the fence, its probably serviceable but needs refinement probably.
Rigging... dear lord I feel like I'm reading Rigger 2 again, why dont you just add a maneuver score while your at it! The Drone bits are sparse super sparse I didnt think that was the end when I turned the page. You may as well just put in "go handwave something"

[Nstol_wisper]

The first 2 paragraphs make it sound like "SR4 matrix, before Unwired." Don't worry, I'm sure they can figure out how to over-complicate and under-think it.

Third paragraph says they're making a change to the way things already are, so they aren't letting lack of rules knowledge slow them down.

Actually, the only changes I'm reading is datajack is now necessary, and also probably going to be more expensive and essence-requiring, and they've found a way to screw up technomancers even harder.

Actually? Encouraging I think since 4e had a way to link devices in a Pan for Data Processing and had Advanced Programming Tables.
Now with Hosts which will likely have their own Data Processing and Firewall attributes makes me hope some type of Programming or Device hacking will make it to Sixth World, which 5e had to some degree.
Now there might be room for Host deckers who hack programs? Without a Cyberjack? Host's have been slowly getting more light as far as usability and maybe Sixth World will continue the trend.

[Sendaz]

Now there might be room for Host deckers who hack programs? Without a Cyberjack? Host's have been slowly getting more light as far as usability and maybe Sixth World will continue the trend.

The Cyberjack is what is going to let you go full VR. You can certainly deck without it, they got commlinks with their own DP/F stats and you could probably turtle it from a terminal for a Host, but there will probably be a few dice less in response time which will also probably translate into a disadvantage when it comes time to awarding Edge, so the decker with the cyberjack will probably gain Edge over the slo-joe using just their commlink or terminal connection.

[Nstol_wisper]

The Cyberjack is what is going to let you go full VR. You can certainly deck without it, they got commlinks with their own DP/F stats and you could probably turtle it from a terminal for a Host, but there will probably be a few dice less in response time which will also probably translate into a disadvantage when it comes time to awarding Edge, so the decker with the cyberjack will probably gain Edge over the slo-joe using just their commlink or terminal connection.

And then there's drawing attention to the Host itself by launching illegal actions from it. It won't be a your host for long, very likely. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smokin.gif)
Maybe they will bring back the Foundation rules so that a Host can be hacked that way. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/notworthy.gif)

[Nstol_wisper]

The Cyberjack is what is going to let you go full VR. You can certainly deck without it, they got commlinks with their own DP/F stats and you could probably turtle it from a terminal for a Host, but there will probably be a few dice less in response time which will also probably translate into a disadvantage when it comes time to awarding Edge, so the decker with the cyberjack will probably gain Edge over the slo-joe using just their commlink or terminal connection.

So there are devices with Data Procssing and Firewall values other than Cyberjacks.....
Now, it's left to see is if there can be multiple devices on a PAN for example, assisting with data processing and/or firewalling.

[hermit]

All Commlinks have D/F values, usually around 1/1, though a police squad car in an example has 5/5, so maybe devices now have stats that actually are at least somewhat meaningful.

[Sengir]

Just as a fun aside, Pegasus does not want money for promotional material: https://www.pegasusdigital.de/product/28317...6--Starterpaket

Also cool: They're giving out the German 5th Ed BBB for free. In case anyone finally decided to lean German and needs course material (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Nstol_wisper]

Too bad there aren't sub-publishers to do content in english as there are plenty of regions that can use a current sourcebook. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

[Nstol_wisper]

Just as a fun aside, Pegasus does not want money for promotional material: https://www.pegasusdigital.de/product/28317...6--Starterpaket

Also cool: They're giving out the German 5th Ed BBB for free. In case anyone finally decided to lean German and needs course material (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

What are the differences between the Pegasus product and the Beginner's besides one being free?

[Moirdryd]

Apparently it's free of typos, incorrect rules and misprinted reference cards

[hermit]

Not entirely (c&p errors in a table, one typo), but at least there's less and it is free. Cards were not translated, might be released later if they have the capacity, according to Hamelmann (the editor).

[Moirdryd]

Meh, still not interested with it all, I have a shelf healthily stocked with SR3 and some 2 material and will continue enjoying them. The crazy thing is it wouldnt be that hard to put the same effort CGL have put into genuinely updating 3rd for better effect and a good product.

[Nstol_wisper]

Meh, still not interested with it all, I have a shelf healthily stocked with SR3 and some 2 material and will continue enjoying them. The crazy thing is it wouldnt be that hard to put the same effort CGL have put into genuinely updating 3rd for better effect and a good product.

Very realistic to say a previous release of the game, SR3 to take your example, can be worked, updated into something else.
The problem must be because people ask the question..Why? There is little or no pay involved while the licenced versions keep rolling aong.
And how likely will it be that the rework won't look alot like the last released edition?

I knew about Shadowrun from the beginning but never got into it for many reasons but the one I took as a deal breaker was the following......
When a game is skilled advancement based with attributes and with relatively low numbers, all the skills rolls will tend to have the same results as there is little room for randomness. So a system must be put into place to expose the extreme ranges of dice rolls or be able to modify those rolls. 3e had gambled on situatonal modifiers but left too much to houserule so I never took it up. But 4e got my attention again karma then 5e had edge.

In fact alot of the changes I saw necessary from the early editions often but not always go into later editions.

[Moirdryd]

Too much to House rule? In 3e? That alone makes me think you never looked at the game. 5e had to be house ruled to hell and back *points at some ancient posts where I had pages of house rules that I alone had made, plus the others that people had done*

My point was that the people doing the licensed version could have produced a licensed product in place of 6e or indeed 5e the genuinely built upon 3e or 4e. 3e after all was obvious in how it built upon 1e and 2e. D&D has obvious progressions as well with 4e being the one that was wildly out of whack with 1-5. The World of Darkness again has obvious learning curves in revisions a development and even the nWoD or CoD that came afterwards built upon a theme and concepts consistently.

As for randomness... Modifiable dice pools and TNs from a wide array variance. "Gambling" on situational modifiers instead of a "Luck" mechanic, isn't gambling it's called "simulation", which is a standard for any RPG that tries to be "gritty" which is why it works well for Cyberpunk but you don't see it in games like Feng-shui. SR had resource management and luck mechanics to though in its different pools. In fact the 5e Edge mechanic reduces the randomness as it provides a ready supplies of gateways to turn failure into successes.

[binarywraith]

Very realistic to say a previous release of the game, SR3 to take your example, can be worked, updated into something else.
The problem must be because people ask the question..Why? There is little or no pay involved while the licenced versions keep rolling aong.
And how likely will it be that the rework won't look alot like the last released edition?

I knew about Shadowrun from the beginning but never got into it for many reasons but the one I took as a deal breaker was the following......
When a game is skilled advancement based with attributes and with relatively low numbers, all the skills rolls will tend to have the same results as there is little room for randomness. So a system must be put into place to expose the extreme ranges of dice rolls or be able to modify those rolls. 3e had gambled on situatonal modifiers but left too much to houserule so I never took it up. But 4e got my attention again karma then 5e had edge.

In fact alot of the changes I saw necessary from the early editions often but not always go into later editions.

Gee, it's almost like a lot of the people posting here have been playing since before 3e was the currently supported version, and have already done all that effort...