Sixth Edition, Release Announcement Options

[AccessControl]

How fast do you regain your base Edge?

You start each game session with an Edge pool equal to your edge stat. You can gain more during combat or other "situations", to a maximum of 7 held at any one time, but extras over the top of your Edge stat are lost at the end of the encounter (whether it's a combat, a social encounter, a hacking session, whatever). If you end the encounter with less than your Edge stat, you don't go back up until you earn it back via some method like another combat coming along.

[bannockburn]

So you better have your rabid raccoon in a sack with you at all times.
Poke it to gain Edge.

[AccessControl]

So you better have your rabid raccoon in a sack with you at all times.
Poke it to gain Edge.

They do try to mitigate that by having an entire subsection in the Edge section where they call out that you can only gain Edge as part of a REAL opposed encounter, and that GMs should not award Edge that are not directly part of an ongoing confrontation or award it to players who are clearly attempting to game the system.

[Sendaz]

It's scene play, like you see in Anarchy.

Your pool of Edge won't refresh until the next 'scene'.

The big question is when do you constitute a new scene.

Most of the time it will be easy. Your scene might be one fight or a getaway, but some others might merge into each other and can make it a bit stickier.

Best rule of thumb is if there are fresh faces, that's a new scene. But even that is going to be tricky.

Say your scene was a firefight in the R&D lab. You win or fall back, that's one scene. If you run into more security forces in the hallway on your way out that should be a new scene.

But what if you are in a firefight in the R&D labs and you are taking too long so the reinforcements engage you while you are still dealing with security there.

Does everyone get an Edge refresh or not? Change in circumstances should be a new scene, but it can be argued either way.

[Nstol_wisper]

They do try to mitigate that by having an entire subsection in the Edge section where they call out that you can only gain Edge as part of a REAL opposed encounter, and that GMs should not award Edge that are not directly part of an ongoing confrontation or award it to players who are clearly attempting to game the system.

To keep players on track I guess. The advantage check outside the main confrontaion likely won't be relevant to the main. But how is that exploiting the system? If anything the player is at best trying something not thought of, at worst just not cooperating.
I guess using a skill THEY want to use and not one they SHOULD be in a given situation can be the complaint. But gaiming the system?

[AccessControl]

To keep players on track I guess. The advantage check outside the main confrontaion likely won't be relevant to the main. But how is that exploiting the system? If anything the player is at best trying something not thought of, at worst just not cooperating.
I guess using a skill THEY want to use and not one they SHOULD be in a given situation can be the complaint. But gaiming the system?

I think they meant more the "badger in a backpack" scenario, where a player can just try to get Edge-on-demand. A GM shouldn't reward that, since it's clearly gaming the system.

[Nstol_wisper]

It's scene play, like you see in Anarchy.

Your pool of Edge won't refresh until the next 'scene'.

The big question is when do you constitute a new scene.

Most of the time it will be easy. Your scene might be one fight or a getaway, but some others might merge into each other and can make it a bit stickier.

Best rule of thumb is if there are fresh faces, that's a new scene. But even that is going to be tricky.

Say your scene was a firefight in the R&D lab. You win or fall back, that's one scene. If you run into more security forces in the hallway on your way out that should be a new scene.

But what if you are in a firefight in the R&D labs and you are taking too long so the reinforcements engage you while you are still dealing with security there.

Does everyone get an Edge refresh or not? Change in circumstances should be a new scene, but it can be argued either way.

In theroy a scene can be the entire mission or just a single a nonverbal acknowlegdement by a character.
Plenty of room for in session interpretation.

But more importantly, you can potentially get edge back after the encounter. But then again maybe not.....
I wonder if that satisfies the discussion of soak damage somewhat?

[bannockburn]

They do try to mitigate that by having an entire subsection in the Edge section where they call out that you can only gain Edge as part of a REAL opposed encounter, and that GMs should not award Edge that are not directly part of an ongoing confrontation or award it to players who are clearly attempting to game the system.

Well, no d'uh (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
No GM worth their salt would allow that kind of trick, but similar to pink wireless jump suits it's suitable shorthand for shortcomings.

[Nstol_wisper]

And no limits, and someone mentioned no beginning skill caps? I'm looking foward to some real focused specializations.
I'm thinking of an all Decker game to run for example..... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/scatter.gif)

[Sendaz]

In theroy a scene can be the entire mission or just a single a nonverbal acknowlegdement by a character.
Plenty of room for in session interpretation.

Yes, that is what we were saying, and why it is a bit vague for determine when Edge refreshes.
It would be a pretty dick move to not refresh the Edge until the whole mission is done, give how dependant the system is on Edge.

But more importantly, you can potentially get edge back after the encounter. But then again maybe not.....

well ideally you should because as something crops up, be it combat or trying to rewire your trideo box or bake some cookies, that is a new 'scene' and your pool should be refreshed.

I wonder if that satisfies the discussion of soak damage somewhat?

???

That.....

Wow...

It's like you haven't even been reading the debate on armor and soak, but just keep dropping comments in, and damn the non-sequitur.


Can we get an IP check here, because I swear to Ghost that this is Neurosis just trolling us like he did back in 5th about wireless bonuses...

[Stahlseele]

Actually, let us get back to the no caseless ammo anymore for a second here . .
a.) this is a complete 180 and 100% retcon of what was true in SR4 at least, no clue about SR5, never bothered to find out . .
b.) this completely kills off the metal storm weapons and the electronic firing gun modification as well, because those need to be caseless by default.
Were the metal storm weapons even still a thing in SR5? I do not know, never bothered to actually find out . .

[Kyoto Kid]

...yes electronic firing was not only an option in 5E but several weapons like the Yamaha Raiden offered it as a stock feature.

The Yamaha Sakura Fubuki also reappeared in Better than Bad.

[hermit]

I wonder if that satisfies the discussion of soak damage somewhat?

No? I'm kinda with Sendaz here. This looks more and more like a troll, maybe one of the geniuses who wrote this garbage fire of a "sixth edition". Like Neurosis, though Devon was a bit lighter on the typos.

[Nstol_wisper]

Everyone's out to get you and your luckycharms, man...... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead.gif)
We can finally take over the galaxy with you out of the way.

[binarywraith]

It's like you haven't even been reading the debate on armor and soak, but just keep dropping comments in, and damn the non-sequitur.

I mean, I'd think it's pretty obvious that they're just here to astroturf at this point.

[Iduno]

I've managed to get ahold of one of the CRBs from GenCon, and I'm amazed at what is either an oversight in design or an intentional nerf to cyberlimbs.

In SR6, cyberlimbs start with ALL their Physical attributes set at 2, instead of the previous edition's Strength and Agility of 3. Strength, Agility, and Armor can be upgraded via capacity-filling modules, to a maximum of +4 on top of your natural attribute.

Cyberlimbs also have the note, similar BUT DIFFERENT to the previous edition, where if you have limbs with different attributes (say, only one cyberarm), you take the LOWEST attribute among all the limbs to make a relevant test unless the test is solely being performed with the augmented limb, like firing a gun with only that arm.

So...that means the instant you get a cyberlimb, all your damage soak tests (which are based on Body, a physical attribute), will never be able to have a dice pool higher than 2 without Edge, because all cyberlimbs have a Body attribute of 2 and this attribute can't be upgraded via add-ons, unless the GM somehow rules that the shot is intentionally targeting a non-augmented portion of you.

What the hell, CGL?

Mages don't use cyberlimbs, therefore they need to be nerfed. Only mages deserve to be good at anything. Thus spake Hardy.

[Sendaz]

Remember if you are using Edge, it is better to give than to receive.

For Example, the basic 1-Edge Boost ability of Re-rolling one die (Post) works best when applied to making an opponent reroll one of THEIR hits rather than rerolling one of your misses, seeing as the opponent has a 2/3rd chance of having it become a miss while your own reroll has only a 1/3rd chance of hitting.

Still not entirely happy with the path Edge is taking as basically it is its own form of magic seeing as you can affect others, and even better without resistance unless they spend Edge to counter, but if they want it that way we will make use of it.

[Nstol_wisper]

To somebody with a a copy of the 6e core rules.......

What are the capabilities of Cyberjacks, and what do they cost in Essence?
Any new headwear?

[Kyoto Kid]

...interested as well on the particulars of cyberjacks.

So another question, this one relating to combat, is there or is there no longer a Suppression Fire option? I find it very useful for characters who are not one of the team's "big guns" which still makes them very useful when everything goes to dreck.

[Sengir]

To somebody with a a copy of the 6e core rules.......

What are the capabilities of Cyberjacks, and what do they cost in Essence?
Any new headwear?

Cyberjacks have Data Processing and Firewall attributes, i.e. the legal stuff, they also give an Initiative bonus and are required for the matrix-specific Edge uses. Stats range from DP 4, FW 3, +1 Initiative for 1 Essence and 45000 ¥ to DP 9, FW 8, Ini +2 , 3 Ess, 210000 ¥.

Cyberdecks add Stealth and Attack and have program slots, stats go from Attack 4, Stealth 3, and 2 slots for 24750 ¥ to A 9, S 8, 12 slots, 410600 ¥.

Finally there are commlinks, those have DP and FW attributes like Cyberjacks (but only ranging from 1/0 to 3/1) and also add program slots (0-3).

What I actually like about these values is that there is some consolidation, there are six Cyberjacks and six decks going, a deck has the same values for its attributes as a Cyberjack, and both have the same Availability (although jacks have legality "L" as in "license needed", and decks are I-llegal).
But that's about everything good I can say about the matrix chapter, especially the list of actions still is a hot mess: Marks have been replaced with "access levels" (outsider, user, admin) but they still do not give the user any permissions, just the ability to roll a certain test. Editing a file requires an Electronics + Logic vs. Firewall + Sleaze test, opening your garage door is Electronics + Logic vs. Willpower + Firewall and and illegal to boot, encrypting a file is...not opposed and fully legal. Did the ability to encrypt other people's files ever cause problems?
Speaking of legal vs. illegal actions, this new and streamlined edition finally establishes some clear rules: "Legal tests use Electronics + Logic. Illegal tests use Cracking + Logic." See the garage door opener above for how consistently they followed that rule, and it's by far not the only example.
There also are some actions with the sentence "This action is linked to the Sleaze/Attack attribute" tacked on as the first or last paragraph, seemingly an afterthought. Here is what this means:
Certain Matrix Actions and programs are linked to a particular Matrix attribute, either Attack or Sleaze. If you use an action or program that’s linked to the lower of the two attributes, like using Brute Force (an Attack-linked action) when your Sleaze is higher than your Attack, you take the difference between the higher and lower Attributes as a dice pool penalty to the test required for that action.
Why add this cruft in an edition that is supposed to be smaller and leaner? I believe it's there to give the impression that cyberdeck stats matter, which they don't: Hacking into a system is just a Cracking + Logic test and does not require any deck attributes. Sure, without a Sleaze attribute to resist Perception tests you will be easy to spot, but...
If the device doesn’t possess one or more of the Matrix attributes, then the applicable attribute is treated as if it were 0. You can rotate all attributes through your persona, even if they originated from different devices.
So just take your cyberjack (or RCC, actually), shift the DP stat to Sleaze, and be a master hacker without a deck. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)


And because all of this sounds really negative, here is something to lighten up your mood:

Revising the Matrix was a top priority for us, with the central goal of making it more intuitive as well as more fun to play. That means we took a machete to the old system cut down of the things that we felt slowed it down too much.

[bannockburn]

Well, someone apparently cut themselves with that machete while doing so, and this is the blood loss talking.

[Kyoto Kid]

...hmm, almost makes decking in 3E sound simpler.

[Sengir]

Well, someone apparently cut themselves with that machete while doing so, and this is the blood loss talking.

IMO it sounds like the optimistic plan you have at the beginning of a project, before scheduling, budget concerns, and executive meddling (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Stahlseele]

...hmm, almost makes decking in 3E sound simpler.

Sad innit?

[Nstol_wisper]

So the interface of the Matrix is accessible by common technology and knowledge which most people in the world should have? Thus a hack is...a small leap in knowledge? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/scatter.gif)