Sixth Edition, Release Announcement Options

[Draco18s]

The new Impaired Attribute (or Incompetent (Aerospace)) on the other hand neither require the player to do something nor preclude something the player might want to do, they only exist on paper.

Which is why I take Incompetent (Groundcraft). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

That might actually come up.

[Iduno]

Which is why I take Incompetent (Groundcraft). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

That might actually come up.

Also it goes well with Knowledge: Bus Schedule.


If you're taking something like Incompetent, you're challenging the GM to come up with a situation that requires you to make that check, and hoping they don't take the challenge so you can get a few free points. At least pick something that's not life-threatening when you fail it (parachuting, most vehicle skills).

[Nstol_wisper]

The Incompetent Ouality in 6e is not a penalty to tests. It just doesn't allow the character to put any more points in that skill. So say, not having a skill suffers the same penalty weather you have the incompetent quality or not. So I'm thinking it is intended that you actually have the skill too.
But then again, picking incompetent for a skill you don't have but make use of is an angle.

[Sendaz]

This is probably one for errata as earlier editions clearly specified you could not have the skill that you are claiming to be Incompetent in at all, nor could you even default to it, which is different than just not having the skill and using a stat or similar skill to default to in a pinch.

Lack of clarity to be sure.

[Sengir]

...yeah, I still miss 3E sometimes.

Uhm, you didn't get the Cyberpunk reference, right? Because otherwise you'd be the first person I know to say that about Cyberpunk v3 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

[Nstol_wisper]

Every skill is listed as being usable untrained or not. If you you attempt to use a skill you do not have and it can be used untrained you roll the test with an unfamiliar skill penalty, which is a -1 to the dice.

[Kyoto Kid]

Uhm, you didn't get the Cyberpunk reference, right? Because otherwise you'd be the first person I know to say that about Cyberpunk v3 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)

...only played a little in CP, first edition.

[Nstol_wisper]

Every skill is listed as being usable untrained or not. If you you attempt to use a skill you do not have and it can be used untrained you roll the test with an unfamiliar skill penalty, which is a -1 to the dice.

Just as well. It didn't make sense to me that something like swimming or sprinting would have the same penalty as casting a spell for example, when doing an unfamiliar skill test.

[Sendaz]

Just as well. It didn't make sense to me that something like swimming or sprinting would have the same penalty as casting a spell for example, when doing an unfamiliar skill test.

Are...

Are you answering yourself?


Also, what are you referring to as same penalty as casting a spell when doing an unfamiliar skill test?

Because you normally have to know the spell to be able to cast it, there is no unfamiliar casting/ defaulting for spellcasting in the main rules.

[Lionesque]

Roll4It on YouTube: Why We Aren't Playing Shadowrun 6th Edition Any More

[Nstol_wisper]

Roll4It on YouTube: Why We Aren't Playing Shadowrun 6th Edition Any More

Without watching.....I'm assuming it's not what they want to be doing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead.gif)
Just not up to their standards.

Richard Stallman Resigns From MIT & FSF

[Lionesque]

Without watching.....I'm assuming it's not what they want to be doing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead.gif)
Just not up to their standards.

Richard Stallman Resigns From MIT & FSF

I should probably have allocated more points to INT, but... what does some dude sharing random thoughts about a piece of news have to do with Shadowrun?

[Sendaz]

Without watching.....I'm assuming it's not what they want to be doing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dead.gif)
Just not up to their standards.

Or... and here is the crazy thought I realise... try watching it.

Yes they lambast several points they don't like, but they also point out elements they do like.

May not agree with all their points, and I think they are misreading one part which may explain why there is some confusion about it, but they raise several good points and stress
that they hope these will be addressed.

[Kyoto Kid]

...I watched it in its entirety and a number of their points agree with my points. YEah 5th has its issues but at least I can manage and deal with those without having to write my own ruleset.

[Method]

Well... it’s been a bit I suppose.

I watched the first 20 minutes of the video linked above and it has confirmed for me all I need to know about 6E. Don’t need the 2 hour version. The discussion regarding playtesting and editorial oversight that starts around 8:30 is exactly the reason catalyst’s SR is the dumpster fire it has become. It’s the reason I quit playtesting and freelancing, and why I won’t spend a dime on anything with Hardy’s name on it.

Honestly I am disappointed that there’s yet another edition of my favorite game I won’t be playing. But I can’t say I’m at all surprised.

I hope you have all been well.

[Kyoto Kid]

...indeed, I love the world setting and they have beautifully fleshed it out, but as was mentioned in the video, the rule mechanics have left a lot to be desired, not just in 6E, but in 4 & 5E as well.

[Sengir]

...only played a little in CP, first edition.

OK, my post was referring to Cyberpunk v3, which had a global data wipe (including paper, because nanites) as part the backstory for the edition change, and was a disaster for which "dumpster fire" does not come close as a description. Which is why I was slightly bewildered that somebody talked about missing "3E" in the next post (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Kyoto Kid]

...well System Failure was pretty much that as well. There were a lot of nice juicy plot threads and intrigue in 3E, much of which was poorly explained away or just forgotten.

At the time, I was GMing a campaign set in Europe focused on the UK when suddenly nothing mattered anymore even though my setting was started a few years before the second crash. I was working up to the event's in SOTA 2064 (hoping for a "SOTA 2065" supplement which never happened) when suddenly, everything supposedly went "kablooey." OK I can understand the fact that in real life, technology bypassed fiction with the advent of wireless everything (crikey, I even had a Toshiba notebook computer with a wireless card at the time).

My thinking was why not just amend that in a new matrix or SOTA supplement instead of ripping apart a world setting which was so well fleshed out and rich (we were just getting into the horrors and never saw release of the long awaited Shadows of South America supplement), as well as introducing a whole new rules mechanic? yeah, 4E had a few OK features (like the default build point system, fixed TN, geneware, and elimination of the magic loss rule for wounds [which really crocked adepts]) and a number of bad ones (such as spellcasting becoming even more powerful, blurring the distinction between shamanic and hermetic traditions, Technomancers being little more than another magic tradition instead of the true outgrowth of the Otaku [which they were supposed to be], a significant reduction to starting resources [while costs for many things still remained the same or even increased], hard skill caps, and addition of a "luck attribute").

5E cleaned some of the poor and inconsistent mechanics/rules up while it introduced new ones such as limits, and returning to the old priority system, while magic was still overpowered, Technomancers were still treated as "matrix mages", and the "luck attribute" remained.

6E, from what I have been reading and watching (discussions and playtests), I am totally unimpressed. I feel this may be CGL's "D&D 4E."

This is why even for its complexity, I say I still "miss 3E" sometimes.

[Moirdryd]

The beautiful irony being, and people easily forget, Wireless Matrix was a thing in 3e and (superficially) it functioned like modern wireless networks and p-secs were essentially smart phones anyway, the difference being that CyberDecks and CyberTerminals made everything VR and silly fast.

[Nstol_wisper]

...well System Failure was pretty much that as well. There were a lot of nice juicy plot threads and intrigue in 3E, much of which was poorly explained away or just forgotten.

At the time, I was GMing a campaign set in Europe focused on the UK when suddenly nothing mattered anymore even though my setting was started a few years before the second crash. I was working up to the event's in SOTA 2064 (hoping for a "SOTA 2065" supplement which never happened) when suddenly, everything supposedly went "kablooey." OK I can understand the fact that in real life, technology bypassed fiction with the advent of wireless everything (crikey, I even had a Toshiba notebook computer with a wireless card at the time).

My thinking was why not just amend that in a new matrix or SOTA supplement instead of ripping apart a world setting which was so well fleshed out and rich (we were just getting into the horrors and never saw release of the long awaited Shadows of South America supplement), as well as introducing a whole new rules mechanic? yeah, 4E had a few OK features (like the default build point system, fixed TN, geneware, and elimination of the magic loss rule for wounds [which really crocked adepts]) and a number of bad ones (such as spellcasting becoming even more powerful, blurring the distinction between shamanic and hermetic traditions, Technomancers being little more than another magic tradition instead of the true outgrowth of the Otaku [which they were supposed to be], a significant reduction to starting resources [while costs for many things still remained the same or even increased], hard skill caps, and addition of a "luck attribute").

5E cleaned some of the poor and inconsistent mechanics/rules up while it introduced new ones such as limits, and returning to the old priority system, while magic was still overpowered, Technomancers were still treated as "matrix mages", and the "luck attribute" remained.

6E, from what I have been reading and watching (discussions and playtests), I am totally unimpressed. I feel this may be CGL's "D&D 4E."

This is why even for its complexity, I say I still "miss 3E" sometimes.

The world setting between 5e and 6e seems to have the most parity. Same with mechanics. As far as inconsistency, I look at Shadowrun editions and see the world setting being deployed as a mechanic and not just a backdrop, and the world narative in early editions was pretty incomplete by current standards. Still developing.

[Moirdryd]

Erm... 1-3 was consistent and you could use sourcebooks across the editions with minimal effort in most cases for rules and with no effort required at all for setting information and how things worked. the Seattle Sourcebook is a great resource for 1-3, the Neo Anarchists Guides, Sprawl Survival Guide, Shadows Of and the setting boxes ALL have value outside of their written editions. Heck they even have value into 4th. 5th and 6th have none of that parity with the entire rest of the setting history. Also I am pretty sure the setting information for 1-3 was not only extensive but also exhaustive, the detail was intense in many cases. Corporate Shadowfiles and Corp Sec Handbook are amazing in their own right for not only what they cover but how it's covered.

The world narrative in newest editions I am afraid to say is very sub-par, there are approaches of logic that fail at first hurdles. Again Nstol you seem to not know what you talk about.

[binarywraith]

I feel this may be CGL's "D&D 4E."

Eh, I don't think that's a fair comparison.

D&D 4e was a mechanically tight game that just wasn't a good representative of D&D. SR6 is both mechanically terrible and a bad Shadowrun game. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

The beautiful irony being, and people easily forget, Wireless Matrix was a thing in 3e and (superficially) it functioned like modern wireless networks and p-secs were essentially smart phones anyway, the difference being that CyberDecks and CyberTerminals made everything VR and silly fast.

Yup. Wireless networking has been a thing for decades in SR, it just couldn't push enough speed to do full ASIST decking. They still have never given a good explanation for how it does in the later editions, given the physics of wireless networking haven't changed.

[Moirdryd]

Pretty sure that even full ASIST was there in Matrix, just I/O depending on carrier signal more than Deck and here were a few interesting issues that could crop up with wireless connections and Dumpshock and the Psychotropic IC

[Nstol_wisper]

Erm... 1-3 was consistent and you could use sourcebooks across the editions with minimal effort in most cases for rules and with no effort required at all for setting information and how things worked. the Seattle Sourcebook is a great resource for 1-3, the Neo Anarchists Guides, Sprawl Survival Guide, Shadows Of and the setting boxes ALL have value outside of their written editions. Heck they even have value into 4th. 5th and 6th have none of that parity with the entire rest of the setting history. Also I am pretty sure the setting information for 1-3 was not only extensive but also exhaustive, the detail was intense in many cases. Corporate Shadowfiles and Corp Sec Handbook are amazing in their own right for not only what they cover but how it's covered.

The world narrative in newest editions I am afraid to say is very sub-par, there are approaches of logic that fail at first hurdles. Again Nstol you seem to not know what you talk about.

If they liked it the way it was they would not have made so many changes.
The world was projected to change along with the rules. And again the further and more developed the setting is the less the rules seem to lack parity with the previous edition. You liking one edition over another did not effect that progression at all.
But I'll leave that where it is. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Kyoto Kid]

Erm... 1-3 was consistent and you could use sourcebooks across the editions with minimal effort in most cases for rules and with no effort required at all for setting information and how things worked. the Seattle Sourcebook is a great resource for 1-3, the Neo Anarchists Guides, Sprawl Survival Guide, Shadows Of and the setting boxes ALL have value outside of their written editions. Heck they even have value into 4th. 5th and 6th have none of that parity with the entire rest of the setting history. Also I am pretty sure the setting information for 1-3 was not only extensive but also exhaustive, the detail was intense in many cases. Corporate Shadowfiles and Corp Sec Handbook are amazing in their own right for not only what they cover but how it's covered.

The world narrative in newest editions I am afraid to say is very sub-par, there are approaches of logic that fail at first hurdles. Again Nstol you seem to not know what you talk about.

...indeed, save for South and Central America (Amazonia and Aztlan) they had mapped out the world pretty well by 3E and as I mentioned offered a lot of threads and hooks for setting a campaign around.

I used older material like the London Sourcebook, TT Sourcebook Paradise Lost (the setting information) and even Shadowbeat (I actually played a Cybersnoop character who was pretty effective) in 3E with little difficulty. I also modified a couple of the chapters in the old Missions supplement and successfully GM'd them. One of our missions GMs ran a short 6 episode alternate non missions campaign that used Elven Fire but with the 5E rules as the basis, which was very successful.

Currently we really have just a smattering of information to go on in the way of the overall world setting in 5E as the only location details I've seen has been in a few campaign books and the individual Missions seasons/CMP packs. [after GMing a long running campaign in Europe focused on the UK, I wasn't very thrilled how the UK in (London Falling) was portrayed. Always loved the challenge of the original 2E/3E setting where civilian society was effectively disarmed, magic was highly regulated, and they still used hard currency for transactions (loved the look on the players' faces when after the first job "Mr. Heath" [the term I used for a Johnson] passed a bunch of manila envelopes out filled with 100 quid notes as payment to the team)].