Sixth Edition, Release Announcement Options

[hermit]

Well, if this is really necessary ...

*stands up as one of those who believe SR6 is an unplayable .... jumble*

[binarywraith]

True. Edge is more necessary. But it has evolved to where that way.... You can not have it in your build at all and trust superior dice pools, less applicable skills and be very focused to get you through or buy edge and pick your fights, encrease your odds in more scenarios.
The new system builds on that.
I am a person who never liked too many variables to dice pools when so many dice are involved. It slows the game down too much. They could have just went for more simulation and added more variables and more skills.
But going back to the first point...How do you expand on a system that way and not just make it applicable to a narrow set of situations? Which leaves all other skill options for characters and the characters themselves secondary processes. I guess you can also have environment variables for Matrix situations (hardware types, software types, condition, quality, network quality), or social situations (mood, mental attributes, whatever, man, woman) just to give some examples but that will slow things down even more.

You have no idea how the rules actually work, do you?

Nothing you just said makes any sense, from the perspective of someone with the barest grasp of how the game works under the hood.

[KCKitsune]

I will not be playing 6th Edition. In my mind the buggering they did to non-magicians in 5th edition was horrible . As others have said, if a decker was to lose his deck, then the player might as well make another character. In 4th edition, if a hacker/decker lost his commlink, yeah that was painful, but you could continue with a back up commlink.

[Jaid]

True. Edge is more necessary. But it has evolved to where that way.... You can not have it in your build at all and trust superior dice pools, less applicable skills and be very focused to get you through or buy edge and pick your fights, encrease your odds in more scenarios.
The new system builds on that.
I am a person who never liked too many variables to dice pools when so many dice are involved. It slows the game down too much. They could have just went for more simulation and added more variables and more skills.
But going back to the first point...How do you expand on a system that way and not just make it applicable to a narrow set of situations? Which leaves all other skill options for characters and the characters themselves secondary processes. I guess you can also have environment variables for Matrix situations (hardware types, software types, condition, quality, network quality), or social situations (mood, mental attributes, whatever, man, woman) just to give some examples but that will slow things down even more.

wait... you don't like it when there are too many variables to dice pools... what???

ummm... you *do* know how edge works in 6th edition right? because it's a giant pile of variables that cram themselves into everything. every single part of the game. with a full page and a half of possible modifiers for every single action under the sun, including not *only* your own actions but the actions of anyone else.

[Sengir]

So, I was on DTRP recently and noticed something...or rather its absence: The SR6 BBB is nowhere to be seen in the Top 10, it fell down to number 12. It is marked as "Platinum Best Seller", which according to a couple of Google results means it only sold 1000-2000 units. This is the core rulebook, the most sold product in any given system, for one of the big names in RPGs, yet in the two months since the PDF was released it has not managed more than 2000 sales. It's in the same sales range as Agumented Reality, which is a great product (and what I was there to download), but something that should not be able to hold a candle to Shadowrun's core rulebook.

To add insult to injury, the first place on DTRPG is Carbon 2185, and the CP Red Jumpstart Kit is in third place. Two cyberpunk RPGs, one of them a Kickstarter whose backer rewards to not count as sales and the other one just the quickstart rules, are vastly outselling SR.

Looks like calling 6th Edition a dumpster fire might actually be giving it too much credit, it seems to be more of a smouldering waste basket...

[binarywraith]

I mean with this quality, who wouldn't want the book?

[img]https://preview.redd.it/5qzthwxfh6k31.png?width=857&auto=webp31d0ea8e[/img]

[Sengir]

fixed link: https://i.redd.it/5qzthwxfh6k31.png

Frickin sharks who don't need frickin laser beams on their frickin heads, because they are invulnerable.

[Jaid]

fixed link: https://i.redd.it/5qzthwxfh6k31.png

Frickin sharks who don't need frickin laser beams on their frickin heads, because they are invulnerable.

so, if i'm reading this correctly, this shark bites for less than its unarmed damage, and (unlike metahumans wearing armour purpose-built to protect from bullets) can shrug off most small arms fire as if it wasn't even there.

also, thanks to the new skill system, it is also a fairly competent climber and skilled negotiator (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[binarywraith]

Yeah, it has Hardened Armor 6, making it essentially invulnerable to any melee weapon in the world, and most small arms fire. A monowhip does 6 damage, to give an example.

[Sendaz]

also, thanks to the new skill system, it is also a fairly competent climber and skilled negotiator (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Lawyers....

They made Awakened Lawyers...

[bannockburn]

Literal loan sharks.

[SpellBinder]

so, if i'm reading this correctly, this shark bites for less than its unarmed damage, and (unlike metahumans wearing armour purpose-built to protect from bullets) can shrug off most small arms fire as if it wasn't even there.

also, thanks to the new skill system, it is also a fairly competent climber and skilled negotiator (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

I'ts not a fish, it's a lawyer. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Nstol_wisper]

A Vice President.

[Cochise]

- I've never known Shadowrun to retcon canon - unless you want to count quasi-retcons like CFD wiping out nanotech - so this seems unlikely to me

You obviously missed the Chrysler-Daimler-Nissan retcon on the original Chrysler-Nissan corp due to the (short-lived) real world marriage between Daimler and Chrysler

[Kyoto Kid]

i'm not convinced that new edge is inherently bad as a mechanic. i personally don't like it even a tiny bit, and i think the execution was terrible, and it really bugs me that essentially everyone in the universe has an edge power that in the lore has essentially been reserved for great dragons and powerful free spirits and the like.

but i mean, there are games out there that use a conceptually similar mechanic that do it well, so it isn't that the mechanic is bad... it's just that the shadowrun dev team have their heads so far up their own asses that they can't hear what their playtesters and errata team are telling them. or possibly they just have their heads up their own asses and simply don't care what the playtesters and errata team are telling them. it's hard to tell.

..sort of like in D&D 4 E where even fighters were given "extraordinary" mystical powers.

Really do not like the using Edge to force a glitch on your opponent at all. "Willing" someone's gun to jam or a skill test to fail is simply ridiculous.

[Kyoto Kid]

I remember when they stopped to set up their own forum where nothing but cheers are allowed, when 5E came around and was roundly criticized, because they couldn't take what back then still was fairly constructive criticism. It's not like these issues are new. Jason didn't want to learn (or wasn't able to learn) for the past what, 10 years? So why should he now? On the countrary, under his direction, Shadowrun publishing has been a race to the ever deeper bottoms, employing less and less capable authors, pushing everyone capable who clung on away (Goodman, Zimmerman).

...are you referring to the "Tabletop" forum. I left there because airing constructive criticism of 6E was like pouring water into acid. I even received hostile PMs from some.

[Kyoto Kid]

So, Everyone who believes Shadowrun 6e is an unplayable jumble....Please stand up so everyone can see you. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

...stands up and even waves.

I have eeen 6E in action and it is far more of a fustercluck. Makes 5E feel more like 3E.

[Kyoto Kid]

*stands up, jumps up and down, drop kicks Sixth World*

...and scores three points.

[Kyoto Kid]

But guys, it's not unplayable if you do all the work yourself and houserule it back to 4E (or 3, depending on preferences).

...I'm reworking my old 3E campaign using 5E and house ruling the crap out of it. Even considering tossing the priority system and going back the build point system from 4E for character generation.

[bannockburn]

Sure, BP are better than priority, but why not use the objectively superior system of Karma build? And while you're at it, completely forgetting about 5E? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Kyoto Kid]

...well for one, the Karma build makes for more lacklustre characters as everything needs to be bought with Karma (even knowledge/language skills and contacts) as per the character improvement rules. 4E also had an alternate karma build option that wasn't as good as the Point Build system either.

My reason for using 5E is I do prefer some of the mechanics over those in 4E. Personally, I would love to go back to 3E where the campaign was originally set in (with a few minor house rules I originally had). However, finding players who still play, or are interested in that edition where I live is pretty difficult. Also for new players it is more "crunchy", particularly where decking is concerned (I actually created Excel spreadsheets to try and streamline it back then). 3E also had an alternate build point as well and introduced Edges & Flaws (which became "Positive/Negative Qualities" in 4E/5E) in the Shadowrun Companion supplement.

[pbangarth]

Hmmm. My experience with 4E has been that I could make more impactful characters with the karmagen system. One data point for karmagen, anyway.

I just recently joined a 4E group here in DS, as I have had a lot of trouble finding anyone to play live here. There is a group who play(ed?) 3E and had asked if I was interested, and yes I was, but that fizzled.

5E never did interest me, and I bought the 6E core book, but nothing else so far. Some of the elements in 6E seem interesting (I like being able to share Edge - and could finally make Lucky Eddie), but I too prefer the older editions. What is the poor publisher to do, though? Make new editions or face a steep drop off of sales. That other game system, whose name shall not be mentioned, is the same way.

[Kyoto Kid]

...I found the opposite, and 5E's is even worse. as it is straight up based off of the character improvement tables. So for example, for an adept at priority B which gives you a 6 Magic Attribute and one skill at rating 4, you have to spend 140 Karma (100 for the attribute, 20 for adept status [which also uses up 20 of the 25 karma allowed for positive qualities], and 20 for the skill rating of 4). I built a character using both the Priority and Karma build and the Priority version came out much stronger.

[KCKitsune]

...well for one, the Karma build makes for more lacklustre characters as everything needs to be bought with Karma (even knowledge/language skills and contacts) as per the character improvement rules. 4E also had an alternate karma build option that wasn't as good as the Point Build system either.

I thought there was a house rule where you get Logic x 2 in free knowledge/language points.

[Kyoto Kid]

...in the 5E priority/Sum To Ten build you get Logic + Intuition x 2.