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> Should I run classic adventures with 20th Anniversary ed, Should I run classic adventures with 20th Anniversary ed
gmanjkd
post Jul 26 2019, 12:36 AM
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Howdy, I have an opportunity to run Shadowrun for an entire group that has never played shadowrun before.

I would love to run the classics Mercurial, Dream Chipper, Bottled Demon, Queen Euphoria, Universal Brotherhood, Elvin Fire, Dragon Hunt, Renraku Archeology Shutdown, Harlequin etc.

With that said would this be easy to do using The 20th anniversary edition + the 2050 setting book?

Or am I just setting myself up for failure and Heartbreak?

Thanks
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Iduno
post Jul 26 2019, 02:27 AM
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If I remember correctly, the 2050 book had some editing issues. But if you're familiar enough with the SR4 rules it should be fine.
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Larsine
post Jul 26 2019, 05:37 AM
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I've done it... But then I mostly wing the rules, and just try to make sure the players have fun.
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Mantis
post Jul 26 2019, 03:56 PM
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It is pretty doable. The names of gear and weapons and spells hasn't changed much through editions so it's easy to convert. Dreamchipper has the the big bads using early versions of BTL chips with skills encoded on them which is actually something you can buy in 4th ed (see Unwired) but since you have fresh players they likely won't know that so the surprise can remain intact.
New players are unlikely to know about bug spirits either so Queen Euphoria and Universal Brotherhood should be fun too though the end of Euphoria might lead to a party wipe as the number of bugs in there is pretty high and the bugs are stronger in 4th ed than previous editions. Of course that scene is supposed to play a bit like Aliens so maybe that's OK.
Overall, I'd say go for it. It should be fun with a new group of Shadowrun players.
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Nstol_wisper
post Jul 26 2019, 06:56 PM
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You might consider 5e unless you prefer the 4e rules.
My reasoning is with new players they may if nothing else get curious about later editions, then the jump to later editions is just being delayed.
But again, I suggest that if you were middle of the road on the issue. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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JanessaVR
post Jul 26 2019, 11:48 PM
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Should be entirely doable, and I'm sticking with SR4 myself (though I buy select higher edition books to mine for ideas/gear/magic).
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Nstol_wisper
post Jul 27 2019, 10:56 AM
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I liked the Program Creation Table in SR4's Unwired. I sure wished they used something like it in the later edition. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)
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Nstol_wisper
post Jul 27 2019, 06:14 PM
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QUOTE (JanessaVR @ Jul 26 2019, 06:48 PM) *
Should be entirely doable, and I'm sticking with SR4 myself (though I buy select higher edition books to mine for ideas/gear/magic).

What in SR4 do you find better than SR5? I loved magic in SR5 myself.
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hermit
post Jul 28 2019, 11:34 AM
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QUOTE
Should I run classic adventures with 20th Anniversary ed

Yes.

QUOTE
With that said would this be easy to do using The 20th anniversary edition + the 2050 setting book?

Do yourself a favor and get all the core expansions too; PDFs should suffice. You'll need some of their general rules. Other than that, you're probably good enough with that combo; some special NPC or events might need handwaiving but they effectively did in 1E/2E, too (they had special rules in these books).
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JanessaVR
post Jul 29 2019, 02:23 AM
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QUOTE (Nstol_wisper @ Jul 27 2019, 11:14 AM) *
What in SR4 do you find better than SR5? I loved magic in SR5 myself.

Lots of things, it would take a while to list; ridiculous equipment costs would be one of them. There were just a bunch of instances where I remember reading the new rules and laughing my head off while saying "Um...no, we won't be doing that." At this point, we know SR4, and we've got house rules for it, so that's what we're sticking with.
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Nstol_wisper
post Jul 29 2019, 10:59 PM
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One of the few things I did not like about 4e was the high character build costs being just enough to make hybrid archtypes difficult.
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JanessaVR
post Jul 29 2019, 11:30 PM
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QUOTE (Nstol_wisper @ Jul 29 2019, 03:59 PM) *
One of the few things I did not like about 4e was the high character build costs being just enough to make hybrid archtypes difficult.

I'm a magical supremacist, so I never noticed that. But I note that in SR4 deckers didn't need to spend so much money on a good cyberdeck that if they had that much money in the first place, they could have just retired from running the shadows.
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Nstol_wisper
post Jul 30 2019, 01:02 AM
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QUOTE (JanessaVR @ Jul 29 2019, 06:30 PM) *
I'm a magical supremacist, so I never noticed that. But I note that in SR4 deckers didn't need to spend so much money on a good cyberdeck that if they had that much money in the first place, they could have just retired from running the shadows.


What define us as civilized is what we create, if we create, and how useful what we create is, and it gets expensive all that creation. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)
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Sendaz
post Jul 30 2019, 06:59 AM
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QUOTE (Nstol_wisper @ Jul 29 2019, 08:02 PM) *
What define us as civilized is what we create, if we create, and how useful what we create is, and it gets expensive all that creation. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

Ummm, no.


How you treat your people and other defines a civilisation, as this is a people's social and cultural development.

Hell the Nazis led the way in tech in many ways, first major use of rockets and early jet planes as well as well on their way to cracking the nuclear bomb. The US only got wind of the latter thanks to a letter from Albert Einstein himself warning FDR of the potential menace, jumpstarting their own research with the Manhattan project.
I wouldn't necessarily call them more civilised.

But we get what you are probably trying to say though, that tech and research costs money.

BUT, cyberdecks are sort of part and parcel to the game setting. The Tech is already there, the cost of components should not be too bad, Deckers were not having to rebuild the wheel here.
Yes programs were constantly evolving and you had to devote some effort and funds to keeping SOTA, but the PRICE of decks was kept ludicrously inflated to act as a brake on Deckers in game, which always seemed kind of odd.
Like JanessaVR said, by the time you could afford a decent deck, why wouldn't you just retire?
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Nstol_wisper
post Jul 30 2019, 10:11 AM
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QUOTE (Sendaz @ Jul 30 2019, 01:59 AM) *
Ummm, no.


How you treat your people and other defines a civilisation, as this is a people's social and cultural development.

Hell the Nazis led the way in tech in many ways, first major use of rockets and early jet planes as well as well on their way to cracking the nuclear bomb. The US only got wind of the latter thanks to a letter from Albert Einstein himself warning FDR of the potential menace, jumpstarting their own research with the Manhattan project.
I wouldn't necessarily call them more civilised.

But we get what you are probably trying to say though, that tech and research costs money.

BUT, cyberdecks are sort of part and parcel to the game setting. The Tech is already there, the cost of components should not be too bad, Deckers were not having to rebuild the wheel here.
Yes programs were constantly evolving and you had to devote some effort and funds to keeping SOTA, but the PRICE of decks was kept ludicrously inflated to act as a brake on Deckers in game, which always seemed kind of odd.
Like JanessaVR said, by the time you could afford a decent deck, why wouldn't you just retire?


And the net contribution of the Natzi's by civilized standards? Zero.
Japan had a program too and was even credited with some of the earliest breakthroughs. But people were afraid of them using it first due to their savagery in the Pacific. So we dropped two on them first. No one talks about anything before the start of the War and civilization wins and moves foward. The reason? It could have been alot worse.
Now on the surface, most saw those two countries as uncivilized and not deserving any favors. But the World Governments, especially the ones who were not a huge material factor in the War had a plan. The US will rebuild the Nations, creating the strongest nations in their respective regions. Civilization moves foward more.

Now I can say, concerning the price of Cyberdecks. If you can afford it and have the choice why bother to make such a sacrifice? The same can be said about someone going to an expensive university then continuing on to graduate studies, and beyond.
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hermit
post Jul 30 2019, 07:01 PM
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QUOTE
So we dropped two on them first. (...) THe reason? It could have been alot worse.

Yeah, you could've gone with Patton's brilliant "nuke beaches and then land a million troops on them because nobody would see that coming, SNEAK ATTACK!" plan.

QUOTE
The US will rebuild the Nations, creating the strongest nations in their respective regions. Civilization moves foward more.

This reminds me of that scene in Idiocracy where they show the protagonist "history".
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Nstol_wisper
post Jul 31 2019, 01:11 AM
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And who treated who in a civil way then? If that is civilization? Or was is the promise of what was comming and the value of it compared to the alternative? Did we treat the Axis powers with civility? Or was it our way of world building compared to theirs that judged the Allies more civilized?
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KCKitsune
post Jul 31 2019, 08:34 AM
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QUOTE (Sendaz @ Jul 30 2019, 01:59 AM) *
Like JanessaVR said, by the time you could afford a decent deck, why wouldn't you just retire?


THIS! Exactly This!
Considering that in SR 4, you can buy a permanent Middle Life Style with some extra bonuses (safe neighborhood, hard to find, good matrix connection) for around 1 mil nuyen. A bleeding edge cyberdeck costs... about 1 million nuyen!
So if you had the choice of a PERMANENT middle class lifestyle in a safe neighborhood, or hacking the Matrix and getting shot at, which would YOU choose? I know which one I would and it does NOT involve bullets!
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Nstol_wisper
post Jul 31 2019, 10:09 AM
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QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Jul 31 2019, 03:34 AM) *
THIS! Exactly This!
Considering that in SR 4, you can buy a permanent Middle Life Style with some extra bonuses (safe neighborhood, hard to find, good matrix connection) for around 1 mil nuyen. A bleeding edge cyberdeck costs... about 1 million nuyen!
So if you had the choice of a PERMANENT middle class lifestyle in a safe neighborhood, or hacking the Matrix and getting shot at, which would YOU choose? I know which one I would and it does NOT involve bullets!


So how would you play a character like that? Or how woulde you GM a group like that? Considering the inherent dangers of the Shadowrun game world?
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KCKitsune
post Jul 31 2019, 01:41 PM
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QUOTE (Nstol_wisper @ Jul 31 2019, 06:09 AM) *
So how would you play a character like that? Or how woulde you GM a group like that? Considering the inherent dangers of the Shadowrun game world?


First, go with what SR4 did and make decking tools CHEAP! A hacker with a Hermes Ikon (Cost 3000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) ) had enough horsepower for the beginning hacker.
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Iduno
post Jul 31 2019, 01:59 PM
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QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Jul 31 2019, 08:41 AM) *
First, go with what SR4 did and make decking tools CHEAP! A hacker with a Hermes Ikon (Cost 3000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) ) had enough horsepower for the beginning hacker.


I think the prices were increased as a "fix" to the starting decker also being able to buy the top-of-the-line comlink in SR4, which reduced the space for character improvement. The also could have increased the availability rating, or required a B/R skill test to get above a certain power, or dozen of other things. A creative solution it was not.
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Nstol_wisper
post Jul 31 2019, 10:03 PM
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QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Jul 31 2019, 09:41 AM) *
First, go with what SR4 did and make decking tools CHEAP! A hacker with a Hermes Ikon (Cost 3000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) ) had enough horsepower for the beginning hacker.


So trade the fewer Big runs for more smaller runs? If that's the case an option could be a lower lifestyle with the same hardware, and just loose remaining starting credits.
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hermit
post Jul 31 2019, 10:38 PM
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QUOTE
I think the prices were increased as a "fix" to the starting decker also being able to buy the top-of-the-line comlink in SR4, which reduced the space for character improvement.

But they kinda fixed that with WAR and its statted, named commlinks up to 10. They forgot respective OS', but hey ... honestly, I think that was just some misfiring nostalgia with one of the authors. It made no sense.

SR4's four-digit links were too cheap (though with programs and modules and mods, you were firmly in five-digit territory). Granted. But SR5'S six-to-seven-digit prices were too high. Now, what number is between four and six ... someone who's good at the economy, please help me budget this ...
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KCKitsune
post Aug 1 2019, 04:49 AM
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QUOTE (Iduno @ Jul 31 2019, 08:59 AM) *
I think the prices were increased as a "fix" to the starting decker also being able to buy the top-of-the-line comlink in SR4, which reduced the space for character improvement. The also could have increased the availability rating, or required a B/R skill test to get above a certain power, or dozen of other things. A creative solution it was not.

Honestly, to be a bleeding edge decker/hacker you needed 'ware. THAT is how you can balance out the disparity. Beginning hackers don't have the 'ware to make them great.
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Nstol_wisper
post Aug 1 2019, 11:24 AM
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QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Jul 31 2019, 09:41 AM) *
First, go with what SR4 did and make decking tools CHEAP! A hacker with a Hermes Ikon (Cost 3000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) ) had enough horsepower for the beginning hacker.


So the chaper cyberdeck and better lifesstyle or bleeding edge decker are more of a potential character's philosophies? Just trying to clarify sinse it is hard to tell if you are not just being critical of that particular mechanic given all the other comments.
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