Firearms Customization, where do the new guns come from.... Options

[Lord Ver'an]

Most of the time, when one of the players in my group wants to design a gun, he winds up with something that no corporation would produce - its too expensive for general use or so specifically tailored that only a shadowrunner or special ops force would want it. I know that I can always tell them "no" or make it such an absurdly expensive prototype that they will never get it (like the book's example) but that seems like cheating to me, so here's an idea I came up with.

I figure if there are shadow delta clinics, it is not unreasonable that there would be a shadow firearms facility or two somewhere - albiet one controlled by an organized crime group or other unsavory group - that would accept custom orders but charge for all sorts of time used (going roughly by the B/R rules for times). However, I am not sure exactly how to handle this. What would be involved with setting up a custom job? Once one gun had been made, would it me a simple matter to make more (I.E. would there be molds/cast/whatever leftover)?

What do you do in your games to handle firearm customization?

[TinkerGnome]

Not that I've had much cause to use it, but a good controlling factor would be a weapon's design. Particularly if we're talking about a conceal 7 assault rifle or the like, you're probably talking a need for a genius of a firearm designer or a lot of trial and error. Both of which will cost time and money. Once you have a proven design, actually producing the firearm isn't that hard, I'd wager.

[Kanada Ten]

Customization and specialty orders have increased as one of the important trends in the modern world. I don't see this trend losing ground in the next sixty years, and personally think it will only increase. The advent of nano-processing in addition to real world technology of stereolithography will allow for the prototyping of anything the customer desires... for a price.

I agree with you that there will be places that design and sell specialized guns for the outrageous prices that CC gives you. Most of these "shadow shops" will be struggling machine shops with syndicate connections.

Personally, I think Ares would actually have a service to do this legally, but that requires a SIN and the gun would be traceable, very traceable. TSS has an issue the gives rules on how to convert the prototype prices into production cost.

[kuroko]

Yeah, this is something that makes the gun design rules slightly unusable. I don't see many (if any) of the shadow-gun-factories you propose existing. But there are remedies. The gun could have been a limited run prototype, or it might have been a weapon lifted from a facility or fallen off the back of the truck. But in any of these cases the street index and availability should be rough on the player. One of the facets of SR is that, unlike many fantasy games, you are very limited in acquisitions. It isn't just a matter of having enough money to get the merchant to part with the shiny +1 dagger. You have to convince the fixer/dealer to look for something specifically, and then repay them for the trouble, plus the cost of the weapon. This takes time and lots of money, and it may not happen. If the runners want a specific weapon, they're better off making do with some modifications after market on a common weapon.

[Nikoli]

Why couldn't there be custome job shadow gun smiths? Just watch Man with the Golden Gun, if that's not a shadow gun smith then I don't knbow what is.

[Lindt]

Its all in how much money you wanna throw around. If you have 50k to spend on 'the perfect gun' and have a decent fixer, you might just get ahold of a shadow gunsmith.

[Raygun]

I can't see shadowrunning as an industry existing without "shadow gunsmiths". How many there are all depends on how you like to play the game, but I don't think it would be beyond reason to have gun shops exist and operate in the same way that you see custom motorcycle shops operating today, only a bit more behind the scenes. There are quite a few custom gunmakers out there today, some of which, like Fred Craig, design total custom guns like the M11 Merc. That's a totally custom pistol, made the way you want it, starting at $3,800 bucks.

[Arethusa]

I'd also like to note, as an addendum, that it really wouldn't be all that odd for a lot of ostensibly legitimate gunsmiths to be willing to work under the table for their less reputable clients, all to varying degrees from mafia front to a poor gunsmith moonlighting to put his kid through school.

[Raygun]

And it's not like ligit gunsmiths can't be duped like everyone else.

[Smiley]

Just because you don't 'see' a lot of sketchy gunsmiths doesn't mean there can't BE any. If you need one, make one. They may not be in SRComp or New Seattle, but that doesn't automatically forbid anyone from either starting one or working some connections to locate one.

[Nikoli]

Umm, wouldn't a legit gunsmith doing work under the table constitute a 'shadow gunsmith'?

[TinkerGnome]

Depends on your definition of "shadow". When I think shadow, I generally think that most of their work, if not all, is done illegally. A legit guy who does a favor for a friend on the sly every now and then wouldn't qualify under that definition.

[Nikoli]

Money under the table is not often a favor for a friend though. I'd imagine it would start out that way, then eventually all the work is that way, because there's a better mark up.

Add BF option to Browning Max Power for Lonestar officer= 500 :nuyen:
Add BF option to Predator for street tough= 2000 :nuyen:

Same time, same difficulty, same parts. More money, new found friends that keep the local thieves from targeting your shop.

[TinkerGnome]

Still, there's a big difference between a legal business as a front for an illegal business and a legan business where the owner or one of the employees makes a little cred doing jobs on the side ;)