[OOC] Uncaring Stars, The next game of the Deep Black Sea campaign (SR5) Options

[Thanee]

How far out are we here? How far is it to the medical facility? How far to the garage? How far from the garage to the facility?

Bye
Thanee

[Jack_Spade]

Here is a google maps representation: https://www.google.de/maps/dir/49.6371186,8...#33;4m1!3e0

[Thanee]

The northern one is the facility and the southern one the garage, I suppose?

And we are currently somewhere in that larger forest area to the east?

Bye
Thanee

[Volker]

@Slob
James left the building and waited outside, where Muhme can't hear them. bnc would never talk like this in front of the boss herself. Would you care to edit your post?

[SquirrelDude]

What he said wouldn’t change, but I’ve edited it as the new location may impact James/bnc’s response.

[Volker]

thanks

btw, the reason why I'm using "James" instead of bnc is because the characters always perceive James's appearance and voice not bnc's. I'm kinda trying to mimick the difference in seeing bnc and knowing it's bnc by referring to her/him as James.

@Jack are there any other findings of people who look like her (it should be virtually impossible in the Sixth World to leave no traces if you're as unique a person as she is) or share her characteristics? She'd try to not only search her out by name but also by virtually all other clues she has on her (including the damn witch's hut ^^)

[Jack_Spade]

Nope - it's costly to have your digital footprint erased - but possible.
And that should tell you something too...

[Volker]

I got you, thanks!

gilga posted his Assensing check in his IC post.

[Jack_Spade]

Ah, I missed that spoiler. Thanks.
Edited my post accordingly.

[Thanee]

Even more worrying was the fact that she looked directly at Anna's astral body and made a shooing motion.

I don't think you can mask the fact that you are astrally active. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Bye
Thanee

[Jack_Spade]

That would be bad news for all dual natured people - especially vampires.

[Thanee]

That is the main disadvantage of being dual-natured. Besides, there is a way to counter that for dual-natured beings. I think it was in Forbidden Arcana.

Yep, Dual-Natured Defender.

But I am rather sure, that it is exactly as I said. If you are active in astral space, that particular state is completely obvious to everyone that can perceive the astral.

With Masking you could look like a mundane, who still somehow is astrally active, or you could look like a spirit on the astral. But you cannot hide the fact, that you are astrally active.

Bye
Thanee

[Jack_Spade]

Do you have a page number for that?
Masking changes the appearance of your aura and your astral form

What you are thinking of might be the following passage:
"Anything active on the astral plane, including spirits, active foci, dual-natured beings, etc., has a tangible astral form. These forms are more colorful and brighter than auras, as they are astrally “real.”" core p.312

and
"Like physical perception, you don’t need to make a test to see things that are immediately obvious (and since astral forms are bright and vibrant, this means that most astral forms are easy to spot). You only need to roll the dice when your target is trying to hide or when you’re trying to observe in detail—then you make an Assensing Test to see what you can see." p.313

The obiousness clause doesn't apply when masking is involved.

[Volker]

The wording seems to be relatively clear:

You learn to change the appearance of your aura (and astral form). You can make it look mundane.

[Thanee]

The point is, that Masking nowhere allows you to not look as if you were astrally active, i.e. have an astral form. It allows you to look like a different astral form (a spirit or even a focus, I think).

But it's no big deal, if we do it differently here. I don't mind. Was more of a sidenote, really. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Bye
Thanee

[Gilga]

Since masking is in my list for Anna (didn't feel right to initiate her again so quickly) tell me what you decided. Can it mask being astrally active? It probably implies that astral form that do not see through the mask will not attack you. So considerably more useful for astral projection.

[Jack_Spade]

@Thanee

It doesn't say the opposite either.
Being astral active is only visible through the more vibrant colors of your astral form. If you change the astral form to look different, you also mask the fact that you are astrally active.
I'm pretty sure that even some official sources had vampire maskerade on the astral as mundane, not astrally active people (otherwise quite a lot of plots would make no sense at all).

But anyway, yes in my games, masking can change even such basic elements about auras/astral forms.

[Thanee]

It doesn't say the opposite either.

I generally read rules this way: They do what they say. That's it. Meaning, they do not have to say what they do not do (that would be a pretty extensive list), only what they do.

Masking says, that you can do certain things (namely, you can let your Magic Rating appear higher or lower or zero (mundane); and you can have your astral form appear as another type of astral form (spirit, focus, etc.)), and that's the extent of it. Anything it does not list there, you cannot do. That's how I read it, anyways.

Being astral active is only visible through the more vibrant colors of your astral form. If you change the astral form to look different, you also mask the fact that you are astrally active.

I think the "problem" in this logic is, that you only have an astral form, if you are astrally active. Changing the form does not change that fact. You will still be astrally active, just with a different astral form.

I believe, you are mixing "aura" and "astral form" here.

AURAS & ASTRAL FORMS

Living things in general are not active on the astral plane but still cast a reflection of themselves there. This reflection is called an aura; it appears as a shining, vibrant, colorful luminescence. Any non-living objects appear as faded semblances of their physical selves; grey, lifeless, and intangible.

Anything active on the astral plane, including spirits, active foci, dual-natured beings, etc., has a tangible astral form. These forms are more colorful and brighter than auras, as they are astrally “real.” The Earth has an astral form, and many regard this as proof that the planet as a whole is a living entity apart from (or made up of) the creatures that inhabit its surface.

That last part actually highlights what I mean pretty well. As soon as you become astrally active, you gain an astral form, which is like a glowing light bulb on the astral.

Masking allows you to change it (i.e. have it glow in a different color or have a different form), but it does not allow you to shut it off.

What you let Masking do, effectively, is to completely erase your astral form.

Bye
Thanee

[Jack_Spade]

Ah, now I see where you are coming from.

Ok, a valid interpretation.

Mine though is this: Making an Astral Form look like it's just an unawakened Aura is part of Masking

"Anything active on the astral plane, including spirits, active foci, dual-natured beings, etc., has a tangible astral form. These forms are more colorful and brighter than auras, as they are astrally “real.”

You don't errase or make things invisible - you just make the astral form look like an unawakened aura, dimming its luminescense so to speak.

"You learn to change the appearance of your aura (and astral form). You can make it look mundane, or make your Magic Rating look higher or lower by up to your grade."

That explicitly spells out, that you can make you aura and astral form look mundane. Since mundanes don't have astral forms, it therefore must make them look like mundane auras.

[Gilga]

I think that Mundanes can use drugs to gain astral forms in this game through deepweed (bnc did it), and in Forbidden Arcana game Shade was claimed to allow actual projection. (not sure if GM fiat or hard rules). What happens in that case? They are actually mundane so how can astral forms know that they have an astral form rather than an aura (I mean you can see through masking) but in that case there is no mask.

If a mundane person studies assessing, can one stealthily watch people in the astral without being perceived as an astral form that can be interrupted with?

[Thanee]

Ah, now I see where you are coming from.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Mine though is this: Making an Astral Form look like it's just an unawakened Aura is part of Masking

As I said, while I believe this is beyond the intent here, I have no problem with it, if you want to do it like that.

So, this is merely for ... scientific purposes. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)

"Anything active on the astral plane, including spirits, active foci, dual-natured beings, etc., has a tangible astral form. These forms are more colorful and brighter than auras, as they are astrally “real.”

You don't errase or make things invisible - you just make the astral form look like an unawakened aura, dimming its luminescense so to speak.

That is the same as removing the astral form.

I believe you see the astral form as a stronger, brighter kind of aura, but it's much more than that in my eyes.

An astral form is not an aura. It still has an aura (though the two are probably more merged together in the astral, as it is no longer just a reflection). It's your body in astral space as your actual body is your body in the material world. An astral form has attributes and is tangible.

You cannot have your body look like an aura. That makes no sense at all to me.

"You learn to change the appearance of your aura (and astral form). You can make it look mundane, or make your Magic Rating look higher or lower by up to your grade."

That explicitly spells out, that you can make you aura and astral form look mundane. Since mundanes don't have astral forms, it therefore must make them look like mundane auras.

I actually don't think the "mundane" here refers to the "(astral form)", but simply to the "aura", as mundane only makes sense in context with an aura. An aura can be mundane. An astral form cannot, as it has little to do with your level of magic. It's probably brighter, if the magic is stronger, but even a mundane's astral form is much brighter than even the most powerful aura, because it is actually present in astral space and not just a reflection.

And yes, mundanes can have an astral form. It just requires some help. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Bye
Thanee

[Volker]

"I know. I'm always confused as to why no one else wears masks."

I just love you, dude! <3

[Thanee]

@Volker: Just in case you forgot... bnc and Nova treated quite a few wounds together, so she should be aware that Nova has some pretty solid knowledge there. Also, you have seen her R6 medkit in use quite a few times. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Bye
Thanee

[Volker]

Yeah, but using First aid and having a medical background are two different things entirely.

[Thanee]

Of course.

Just seemed a little surprising to hear that question now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Bye
Thanee