The Found Arcana - Fifth Interlude [OOC] Options

[Gilga]

and AM would ask him if he was born a badass or he learned it along the way. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

By the way, are we doing anything with the amazing drone we picked up? Do you want me to try the extended test to transfer ownership (or if I do next chapter) then RP AM busy with that and missing out on the next job?

[Tecumseh]

I'll have to think about Mato joining the group. My initial reaction is that it doesn't seem like a good fit for him. It would require some skill with Arcana that he doesn't have. That's a low hurdle, mechanically, but I'll need to decide if it makes sense thematically.

As for the drone, I don't know if changing ownership is feasible. The devs, by design, made it very difficult to avoid the D&D instinct to pillage everything:

You can illegally
change a device’s owner with a Hardware toolkit and
an Extended Hardware + Logic [Mental] (24, 1 hour)
test. A glitch on that test results in the item sending a
report to the authorities.

The devs later clarified that the GOD clock is running the whole while, which adds 2d6 to your Overwatch Score every 15 minutes. So you can only really expect 2 hours at most, which means you need to generate 24 hits via 2 Hardware rolls. A tough hill to climb. I think I've seen it accomplished once.

I don't know if any books have further clarified things or if there are common house rules for the process.

[Gilga]

Well, there is the fly-on-wall program, which would make it more manageable I think.

Fly on a Wall
Overwatch increases only by 1d6 per half-hour. Haven’t you always wanted to be the fly on a wall, in order to see the look on the faces of people when the final tally of their lives comes up? Well, GOD tends to prevent long-term surveillance by unauthorized personnel, but this program helps rebalance the scales. While this program is running, and the decker is performing no actions other than Matrix Perception tests, the Overwatch Score only increases by 1D6 per half-hour (rolled in secret by the gamemaster as normal). The program requires a Hide action in order to activate properly, and it does not assist in any way in preventing any other icon from noticing the decker.

Now, it says that the decker is only performing matrix perception which is a grey area as the limit is mental I take it that AM does not need a deck to change ownership so the matrix-connected device is just the drone itself, and the drone basically does nothing in the matrix. I think it makes it possible to accomplish at this overwatch rate.

[Tecumseh]

Huh, interesting. Yeah, you don't need a deck, just a Hardware toolkit. We'll need to get one of those.

I'm not opposed to this interpretation. That would give at least 3.5 hours - and more like 11 on average - which makes things much more feasible. An interesting gamble, risking GOD's intervention.

Speaking of toolkits, I actually had some leftover karma from Chapter VI so I went ahead and got both Counterstrike and Sweep for Okichitaw (along with a specialization for it). I also had enough for Animal Handling 1 and Industrial Mechanic 1. Maybe Mato can help Cutty with some of that stuff. (Although he also needs a relevant toolkit for it.)

[Jack_Spade]

That's why you usually do that while driving cross country in areas where Netwatch can't project that much power.

Bobby does have Electronics 1, so can help out in a teamwork test with 4 dice for an average of one extra die.

There is also one very quick alternative: An AI can use a special action to change ownership within one minute. I'd suspect that's the way the more sophisticated crime syndicats are doing that. If anyone had a fitting contact that would be the way to go.

But baasically, we could go on a NAN roadtrip to accomplish this transfer ourselves - or we ask the remains of the Braineaters which still owe us favors for getting them out of the frying pan.

[Tecumseh]

The road trip idea is interesting. Although I suspect that GOD has curb-stomping spirits at its disposal that it could use to detain people on short notice, even away from population centers.

Changing ownership might be beyond the capabilities of the Brain Eaters, who are just a small-time local gang. They're more about salvaging tech; a cutting-edge drone like that would probably blow their minds.

Andrew and the Yakuza could probably help... for a price.

Let's wrap up the details of the magical group. I'm going to keep Mato outside of it for now.

[Gilga]

Do you want to move the drone discussion IC, or the magical group? It can also be a very nice RP opportunity.

[Tecumseh]

I was thinking of hammering out the details of the magical group OOCly, and then having IC posts summarize the conclusions. But if we think that the conversation itself could be good RP material then I'm open to having it ICly too.

Similar approach to the drone. Let's talk OOCly about the mechanics (like we are) and then have that inform IC suggestions. If AM is doing it herself then we'll go with the Overwatch score of 1d6 per half-hour. I don't know how many dice AM can come up between spells and Trouble and Teamwork with but let's say it's 15. On average that would take 6 hours of work to generate 24 hits. That would give GOD 12 rolls to generate 40 points of Overwatch. There's a 66% chance of that happening, so AM would want to use Edge to speed it up. Using Edge on the first two rolls speeds it up to 4 hours, on average, which only gives GOD 8 rolls. There's only a 1% chance of GOD generating 40 points of Overwatch at that speed.

As for the ritual spellcasting, the Decontamination spell is specific to radiation. The more relevant spell would be Clean [Element] (Street Grimoire, p. 114), or Clean Water in this case. It's a manipulation spell so I don't think a Circle of Healing would apply. The ritual in question would be Renascence, but I believe that's for sustained spells. Since Clean Water is a Permanent spell, I don't think it would necessarily benefit from a sustained ritual. We can say that it would, but it takes hours to cast and would only last a number of hours, at which point you might start to wonder why you didn't just cast Clean Water (at F-3 drain) a couple times and be done with it. Maybe set up rainwater barrels and just purify them before using them, easy. Well, easy if you have the spell, which none of us do.

[Jack_Spade]

I still wonder where the acid rain comes from in Shadowrun. I mean, most corps are using fusion plants, cars run on batteries, oil production has peaked and coal isn't really a good source for primary energy anyway. So what are they burning to get that much sulfur- and nitroxides into the air?

But in any case, I just noticed that the Detox spell doesn't actually have to be cast on a person - it could be applied to plants as well to get rid of toxins (It's likely too much effort for individual bushels of gras, but a large tree could be cared for that way). But yes, the Clean Elements spell is likely the better solution all things considered.

To get the conversation about the drone going, just mention it to Bobby - he hasn't actually been told about the thing yet.

The magic group I'd start discussing once we are back at SIS - not something we want to do at a violence aspected gym.

[Tecumseh]

The Detox spell doesn't actually remove toxins; it just eliminates their side effects. So if you go on a raging bender then detox won't remove the booze from your system but it will make you feel fine afterward. It removes the pain rather than the source of the pain.

The question about acid rain is a fair one. Some of it comes from ash that periodically erupts from Mt. Rainier, although prevailing wind patterns would push most of this east rather than north. You're right that most of the electricity in Seattle comes from Gaetronics, which uses clean sources: hydro, solar, geothermal, wind, and fusion. The ACHE has/had a fusion plant (not sure if the UCAS decommissioned it). I'm not sure about the Aztechnology Pyramid. The books imply that unregulated industries in the Barrens (Redmond and Puyallup) produce the pollution, but it's a fair question to ask how they're actually producing it. Industrial boilers since the power grid is spotty in the Barrens? It's not perfectly clear.

The gym isn't aspected toward violence (yet). It might be in the future. We're in a fluid portion of the Interlude where the conversation can be anywhere that's convenient. In my head, I had Mato at SIS for most of his post.

[Gilga]

Okay so for water clean element for access to unlimited clean water. Which would take less than a week to learn. I always felt that the SR economy implies that the world is very clean - fewer people, more advanced technology a lot of clean energy. People belong to cooperations, and live where they work (less commute). Everyone is vegetarian (the meat industry is a big deal in pollution) - so how come things are so bad? I assume they just want it for the atmosphere but haven't thought it deep enough to make sense.

BTW: I collect rainwater IRL and grow vegetables from recycled water. Covid gave a lot of time for home hacking. It is fun and even economic, as it is essentially free food (no additional water, and we make the fertilizer). Quantities are not large, but we buy less at the supermarket. With all the rain in Seattle, I think you can do a lot better than in the desert (where I live), where the limiting factor is water (right now, I use water collected during showers for most of the growing). On the other hand, I have plenty of sunlight, and Seattle may have a lot less light (never been to the place, so I don't know how to farm in that climate).


As for the drone, 15 dice with teamwork is the number. She has 8 dice normally, +4 for a logic spell, +3 for cooperation, =15 - 17 if we allow her to use hot simulation (but I am not entirely sure about it). Using a point or two of edge seems like a good idea especially for such a rich reward.

I'd rather not use any contacts for the We agreed to keep discreet about the Pike hall job, so trying to fence a highly illegal and one-of-a-kind drone originating from there feels a bit rude to me. Best if we can do it ourselves, and the edge is fine for such a reward.

[Tecumseh]

I think the SR world population is more-or-less the same as our current population, just distributed differently. More urban, less rural. VITAS was a convenient explanation for why the overall population has not grown significantly, just like the two Matrix crashes are convenient explanations for why things aren't more advanced than they already are.

Weather patterns have been disrupted, especially in North America; I think the Great Ghost Dance is the usual explanation. One of the Sioux Nation books (Feeding the Masses?) talks about how storms are intense and how a lot of agriculture is being moved underground to give it a more stable growing season. Plus there are things like juggernauts tearing up the surface whenever they please. Again, it's a counterbalance to help explain why meat is so rare and why farm productivity hasn't really improved from our current day and age. This also concentrates agriculture into the hands of a powerful few, which fits neatly with the corporate dystopia.

As for the drone, it's a Hardware roll so I don't think VR would apply. It's interesting because how Ownership is defined and identified is never really answered by the books, to my knowledge. Presumably biometrics, but how precisely? The fact that this is a Hardware roll - rather than Computer or Software - is somewhat telling. Anyway, long story short, no need (or benefit) from VR. This is work for your meat body.

I don't think that using contacts would necessarily violate the discretion of Pike Hall. Nobody needs to know where we got this thing, and if they do we can tell them it was a lovelorn Russian merc. Nothing needs to point back to Sir Pike or the Duchess. I think contacts are a reasonable backup plan if AM's rolling doesn't go as planned.

[Gilga]

Thanks Tec.

In a gist, we (or at least one of us) study the group bond ritual for 5 karma. Then we all 5 more karma for the bond itself, and in return, we get a 10% karmic discount on improving magical skills? (or just initiations?) Did I get it right?

[Tecumseh]

We're going with 4E rules, so it's 5 karma per person, not 10. For that you get a 10% discount on initiation. Let's skip the house rule on discounting magical skills for now, as the investment cost (5 karma) pays back after 3 initiations.

FOUNDING A GROUP
This ritual requires that all participants make an Arcana +
Logic (number of members) Test using teamwork (p. 59, SR4).
If the character is already an initiate, his initiate grade adds to
the dice pool. Apply dice pool modifiers as noted on the Group
Founding Table.
If all participants succeed in this test, the group bond is
established. They must now pay 5 Karma per character to make
the bond permanent, granting members all the benefits of a
full-fledged magical group.

Here are the possible strictures for discussion and/or a vote:

- Exclusive Membership (don't belong to other magical groups)
- Fraternity (help out other members of the magical group)
- Attendance (attend meetings, either once a month, easy enough while living together)
- Deed (support the group with your actions)
- Support/Dues (don't miss lifestyle payments)

[Beta]

We're going with 4E rules, so it's 5 karma per person, not 10. For that you get a 10% discount on initiation. Let's skip the house rule on discounting magical skills for now, as the investment cost (5 karma) pays back after 3 initiations.


Here are the possible strictures for discussion and/or a vote:

- Exclusive Membership (don't belong to other magical groups)
- Fraternity (help out other members of the magical group)
- Attendance (attend meetings, either once a month, easy enough while living together)
- Deed (support the group with your actions)
- Support/Dues (don't miss lifestyle payments)

I'm good with all of that. I haven't done more than record the rewards on my tracker sheet for Jawsey yet, but I'll karma aside for the group.

Actually one thought, on support/dues should we add a bit per month, just to represent care of the lodge, minor reagent use, etc. (now that debts are coming down a lot, maybe 100 or 200 a month would be reasonable? It just feels to me that that stricture should have some cost, even in our circumstances.

========================================

As for the next run, the one I'm looking at doing might actually fit in well -- Mato's comment about a road trip into Salish-Sidhe territory being nicer in the Spring than the Winter is just perfect foreshadowing. I know Gilga has something ready too, and I'm good either way, but I'm actually feeling like what I have planned would just be a good fit for where we are at the moment (as in pretty opposite of the last couple of runs)

[Gilga]

What happens when you do not fulfill the strictures? I'd say take as little as possible.

Go ahead Beta

[Tecumseh]

In the 4E rules, strictures add dice to your dice pool for forming the group. Now everyone's Arcana is so high and the threshold is so low (3, because there are 3 of you) that the odds of failure are very low, especially with Edge.

No strictures are strictly necessary. Because they're not needed mechanically, almost all of them would just be for RP purposes. Not meeting the strictures might get you kicked out of the group.

I would suggest/request that you take Fraternity and Attendance for RP reasons. The others are optional. If gilga wants to take as few as possible, then we can skip the others.

[Gilga]

Attendance seems problematic for me because one of us is always away due to rotating GM, and Faternitiy I am not sure what it means. I am not saying not having a behavior code, I am against enforcing it with mystical bonds if it is unnecessary.

[Jack_Spade]

I think we can keep the loyalty clause - as in "do not betray your circle"

[Gilga]

No worries.


Any suggestions for initiations for AM? While I played many awakened characters, I never really initiated enough and it feels like I'll be initiating AM once per chapter now that we teamed up for that.

[Jack_Spade]

Centering is a must have to reduce drain
Channeling is super powerful for a full body buff that stacks with Enlarge
Quickening is just plain broken.

[Gilga]

Channeling I think is limited to conjures, do you think it can be done with a watcher spirit? It would be a very nice use of a watcher but not very powerful as watchers only live for like half an hour of activity. So it is kind of like having a temporary power-up when you are looking for trouble.


Quickening I never used because it appears that it makes you stand out for any astral observers which seems like a bad idea for a career criminal (?), am I being too strict here? Another problem which I had is that you cannot turn off the quickened spells when appropriate (e.g., wards) so any place with astral security becomes off-limits - but these are exactly the places when a sorcerer might be needed with the team.

I was thinking of a nice workaround that may make it more practical in the Flux metamagic - what do you think? Does it let you turn off quickened spells when you do not want to be noticed/or to pass a ward?

As for centering, it is very nice and with a high enough initiation count may be useful. I was also thinking shielding/abosortion magic.

[Jack_Spade]

Flux is very powerful, but you'd have to spec into Unseen Arts to get it, also it would temporarily desolve the connection to Trouble.

Centering has the benefit that after only one initiation you can get a relatively cheap centering focus - which massively increases your drain abilities.

I'm not a big fan of the Absorption metamagic - you simply are too seldom in a fight against a mage for it to pay dividends. That's something for specialists going out to hunt toxic mages on a daily basis.

Psychometry would be the ultimate detective tool - likewise Divination, although that would be more something for Jawsey to learn - for example by gaining the Chainbreaker Quality and getting Guidance Spirits added to his repertoire.

[Tecumseh]

Initiations
Quickening is the obvious choice, but opinions on it vary widely. I've played with it and found it to be fun. Many tables ban it outright. I think there are ways you can make it reasonable. Missions, for example, makes you buy hits and outlaws both Edge and reagents. AM, in this case, would be limited to two hits. Another restriction I've used is only one quickened spell per level of initiation (or one quickened spell per person, if the magician wants to spread the love around).

Gilga is right that quickened spells make you stand out like a chandelier on the astral, which isn't always desirable for covert action. I think my willingness to highlight the negative aspects of quickening makes me more comfortable with it than other GMs are. If we want to come to an agreement as a table to not use quickening then I'm fine with that too.

If AM wants to hide her nature then Masking and Flexible Signature are good options.

Jack is right that many people start with Centering, and Centering can benefit from a focus to help with drain, but I often find it to be inconvenient. Losing a Free Action to centering is often more annoying than you think it should be, and the obviousness of the centering action (singing, dancing, etc.) often paints a big target on your forehead. It's great in the privacy of your own home when you're just spelling up to tackle the day, but out in the field it can be disruptive.

Alternatively, it's possible for AM to not pursue initiations and to go after other things instead, like foci (perhaps a spellcasting focus to help sustain spells) or continuing to upgrade Trouble.

Strictures
Attendance can be either once a month or once a quarter. It doesn't have to be disruptive to our GM schedule. Personally, I'm also willing to sweep some issues under the rug if they originate from our OOC considerations rather than a real IC constraint.

Fraternity means "help out another member of the group when they ask for help."

Deed means doing things that help the group, like harvesting reagents, tracking down hard-to-find items, and so on. Again, most RP for us.

Support/Dues usually means making contributions to the magical group, which has a "lifestyle" of its own to represent the location of the magical lodge. Since we've wrapped that into the SIS headquarters, for us it would mean not missing your lifestyle payments.

[Gilga]

Well, I did not plan to initiate further but instead planned to focus on decking and gradually build her into a better decker. She spent a lot of Karma on Troubles which I figured would please her for a while regarding her magic abilities.

However, when I channel AM then forming a magic group to discover the mysteries of the world seems more exciting than studying matrix protocols trying to become more tech-witty. She can study matrix things all the time, but there is a brief window in time when she can actually explore magic with help. We are together for three months or so - so she has no idea how SIS would have left.

So I figured that she would not let such an opportunity pass, and with her high arcana score, she can reliably pass the tests so in many ways she feels ready for me to make such progress. She is a magic scholar, even before she is a magic practitioner.