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#26
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Neophyte Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,065 Joined: 21-July 14 From: Northern UCAS (with regular trips to Quebec) Member No.: 190,206 ![]() |
@Thanee My reading is that the Forbidden Arcana talents need to fit into the 25. Not sure how others have read it. I think I'd allow those 20 bonus karma to be used for additional qualities, but at 'in play' rates (i.e. double cost).
Master Alchemist is a nice one, as it increases preparation duration, and then as you accumulate initiations it adds dice when the preparation is used (but it does require having 6 skill in Alchemy, or 4 and being in the Islamic tradition). I think there were another one or two that were alchemy related, but that was the one that really jumped out at me when I made an alchemy using character. |
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#27
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Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 3,414 Joined: 1-September 11 From: Seattle Member No.: 37,075 ![]() |
@Thanee
The official rule is to cap Positive Qualities at 25 karma, although I like qualities a lot so I often bend this to say that you can go above this threshold but only if the net gain/loss from qualities isn't higher than +/- 25 karma. So I usually allow for 40 points of Positive Qualities if they are offset by at least 15 points of Negative Qualities, or 30 points of Negative Qualities if there are at least 5 points of Positive Qualities, etc. (This a personal house rule and has not been approved by the wider GM council here.) In this specific instance, the distinction might not matter much. The 20 bonus karma from a background is post-chargen karma, but the Mastery qualities in Forbidden Arcana have a special rule that their price does not double after chargen (Forbidden Arcana, p. 30). So in this case you could spend your basic 25 karma on whichever Positive Qualities you want and then spend your 20 background karma on Forbidden Arcana qualities and still not break any rules or require any house rules. I played an alchemist once 7+ years ago and in my opinion it needed some house rules to make it viable. The primary sin was the nested rolls, namely one roll for creating a preparation and then another roll when it was triggered, meaning the end product had about 1/9th of the hits of your original dice pool. Plus there's a ton of bookkeeping required around when a preparation is created and when it expires, etc. But let's see what direction you go before trying to brainstorm something workable. |
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#28
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 5,167 Joined: 12-June 16 From: Israel Member No.: 200,423 ![]() |
I think that vault of the ages would help with the bookkeeping.
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#29
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Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 4,990 Joined: 18-September 13 From: Germany Member No.: 154,444 ![]() |
Yes, Forbidden Arcana stuff is great for post gen.
I've got no problem with the proposed house rule. If you go alchemist, be sure to learn tattooing;) |
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#30
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jacked in ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Admin Posts: 9,533 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 ![]() |
No need to bend the rules for me here. It will be fine. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
@Tecumseh: I know that Alchemy is not the most powerful stuff, but I've had pretty good experiences with it. The biggest problem is the short duration, before they start to diminish, which make them very difficult to use (need some prep time at the right moment), but the Qualities up that quite a bit. I'm also not going to have Alchemy as my primary, it's just to add something fun. In the long run, I would probably look into getting a Power Focus, that would also help with the dice rolls for Alchemy. I don't think they are quite as bad as you put them, since only one half of the final dice pool is derived from the preparation roll. @Gilga: Not sure what you are refering to. @Jack: Is that some special quality or metamagic, I don't know about? Been a while that I created a mage here, I don't know all of it inside out. I've used Contact Preparations mostly in the past, which worked pretty well (kinda like potions, or I like to use magical bonbons, but it's the same thing, effectively). Anyways... I am pretty far here, already. Gonna post what I have soon, so you will have a much better look of what I am thinking. Need to do the 20Q still, only put down some background notes, but those should give you a good idea, as well as Contacts. I was debating getting Dedicated Spellslinger (which would be really nice with Sorcery and Alchemy with those lowered costs, making it only 6 Karma to get a spell for both types), but on a full magician, that is just too limiting, I believe. And as far as I have seen, there is noone that can do summoning, at the moment (though, there is that Ally Spirit from AM, of course, however she got ahold of that one, but that's probably some weird stuff that happened during your previous games (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) ). Bye Thanee |
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#31
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jacked in ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Admin Posts: 9,533 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 ![]() |
Raven
Metatype Human Gender female Age 26 Height 1.60m Weight 50kg Hair dark brown Eyes green Skin fair https://i.ibb.co/HCVCGxc/Raven.png [ Spoiler ]
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#32
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 5,167 Joined: 12-June 16 From: Israel Member No.: 200,423 ![]() |
@Thannee
It is basically a box where you can put alchemical preparations without them going bad over time. I think it would make for a lot less book-keeping with preparations. From Forbidden Arcana: A vault of ages may store a number of alchemical compounds or preparations equal to twice the Magic rating of its creator. The Rating of these items cannot be more than twice the rating of the vault. While within the confines of the vault, these items do not degrade. The degradation clock starts ticking as soon as they are removed. |
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#33
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jacked in ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Admin Posts: 9,533 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 ![]() |
Oh, okay. That is neat. Didn't know about that one, yet. Thank you! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Bye Thanee |
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#34
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Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 4,990 Joined: 18-September 13 From: Germany Member No.: 154,444 ![]() |
Tattooing is just part of the artisan skill - but with it you can create tattoo foci, which have a few benefits that my character would really appreciate.
I can also share with you some tricks how to get really good at artificing with comparatively little effort |
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#35
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jacked in ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Admin Posts: 9,533 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 ![]() |
I see. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Havn't gone into Artificing, and that would not really fit at the moment, since it is fairly expensive.
Also, Artificing seems rather terrible. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Having to roll tons of net hits on a non-trivial test, with no Edge allowed, and even a chance to lose 1 point of Essence on a very unlucky roll? Geez. And you also need to spend Karma to even create a focus. Buying one, even though they are fairly expensive, seems so much less of a hassle. I can also share with you some tricks how to get really good at artificing with comparatively little effort Sure. It might still be something to pursuit at some point, but for now, there is too much more useful stuff to go after. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Should be able to fill in the rest tonight. Bye Thanee |
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#36
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Neophyte Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,065 Joined: 21-July 14 From: Northern UCAS (with regular trips to Quebec) Member No.: 190,206 ![]() |
The math on preparation dice pool works out to average hits = 1/9 alchemy dice pool + 2/9 preparation force. Which means that to some degree it is your drain soak that really gates the successes. Of course some spells care more about the force than the successes.
I've only played one character with alchemy, but had a lot of fun with it. Practiced Alchemist really helped make the duration long enough to have a few things prepped. And with that particular character I had a lot of RP fun with Boost Logic -- character had a logic stat of 1 and happily existed most of the time with their head full of nothing but spite and anger, but would pop a small Logic prep any time they needed to think things through. Something that I didn't make use of from Forbidden Arcana is the "Atomizer" (page 193, same section as the Vault of Ages). It basically let's you create health preparations with a contact trigger instead of a command trigger (the contact is spraying the preparation on the target/recipient). Which let's one pass around health preparations, as well as lowering the drain by 1. 500nY +5ny/cartridge, availability 4, so easy enough to pick up in play in the future. =========================== Quick question: Would drone repair use the same kit/shop as vehicles of the same category (automotive for ground, aircraft for flying, etc), or would "drone repair kit" be a thing? Or would it be "ground drone repair kit?" Just trying to make sure that Tamarind has the right kits. |
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#37
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 5,167 Joined: 12-June 16 From: Israel Member No.: 200,423 ![]() |
Just for the record (about making foci) the essence lost can be avoided using the spirt guard power. Not to say that you should do it, but to say that it is not that dangerous.
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#38
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jacked in ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Admin Posts: 9,533 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 ![]() |
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#39
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Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 4,990 Joined: 18-September 13 From: Germany Member No.: 154,444 ![]() |
I see. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Havn't gone into Artificing, and that would not really fit at the moment, since it is fairly expensive. Also, Artificing seems rather terrible. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Having to roll tons of net hits on a non-trivial test, with no Edge allowed, and even a chance to lose 1 point of Essence on a very unlucky roll? Geez. And you also need to spend Karma to even create a focus. Buying one, even though they are fairly expensive, seems so much less of a hassle. Well, I wrote up a little text some years ago over at the official forums: QUOTE Let's assume you came late to the enchanting game and/or are a newbie in general.
Magic 6, Arcana 1, Artificing 1 (With Jack of all Trades this takes 2 Karma) Creating a Focus Formula for a F1 Focus takes only 1 success on your Arcana+Magic test and one day of work. For the Telesma you want something as basic as a stone you drilled a hole into, or some crude brass knuckles - just make sure it's as natural as possible and only has an object resistance of 3 dice (this is usually no problem except for weapon foci, but such is life. Time to learn the club skill and use a home made staff) Now, paying Force in Drams is pretty trivial at these low values. A power focus would cost 120 Nuyen in reagents. Staying one day in your lodge isn't to bad, but now you have to try to beat the Object resistance + Force with your 7 dice. And a Limit of 1. Which is a problem. And here comes the cheese. Very wisely, the rules prevent you from spending edge to raise the limit - but there is nothing preventing you from first renting a place with an artificer workshop (special work area +2 to relevant limit +1000 Nuyen to rent), calling a spirit for that one day, so he can make an untrained teamwork check (+1 dice +1 to limit) and/or have your friendly team lead around for some motivation (Leadership test +1 dice +1 to limit) - actually if you can get enough teamwork friends together you can raise the limit arbitrarily high (although it might get a bit too cozy in your lodge - three other magic types is usually enough). To prevent glitches from eating your essence, you should definitely employ a spirit with the guard ability That done, you are looking at a mighty dice pool of 8 vs. 4, Limit 6. Feel free to spend some edge to get more hits - even if the limit doesn't increase. Why all this? Because of this little sentence in the rules: Core p. 307 "At the end of the crafting time, it is time for the dangerous part of the process: invoking the power of the focus. Make an Artificing + Magic [formula Force] v. formula Force + telesma’s Object Resistance. This counts as the culmination of all your work over the days, so you can’t use Edge for this test. Your net hits from this test, if you succeed, become the focus’s actual Force." With a bit of luck you now have an R6 Power Focus for a total Karma investment of 8, 2 days worth of time, 1120 Nuyen, and a few favors from your friends (maybe they want to hang around a bit more to get their own foci?) |
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#40
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jacked in ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Admin Posts: 9,533 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 ![]() |
"a bit of luck" - getting 6 net successes with 8 dice vs 4 (w/o Edge) is a bit more than a bit of luck. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Thanks! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Bye Thanee |
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#41
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Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 4,990 Joined: 18-September 13 From: Germany Member No.: 154,444 ![]() |
The dice gods are a capricious lot...
It helps if you get analyse device for your tools and increase your dicepool a bit further. Technically, you can also improve a low level power focus with with analyse device. There is also the Practice, Practice positive Quality that improves your limit by one for one skill. |
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#42
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jacked in ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Admin Posts: 9,533 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 ![]() |
The dice gods are a capricious lot... They sure are. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Bye Thanee |
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#43
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 5,167 Joined: 12-June 16 From: Israel Member No.: 200,423 ![]() |
Regardless of Artificing... I think we have enough to start the interlude?
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#44
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jacked in ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Admin Posts: 9,533 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 ![]() |
Assuming you guys are okay with the character I posted so far. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Will look into Contacts and fleshing out the Background with the 20Q later. Bye Thanee |
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#45
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jacked in ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Admin Posts: 9,533 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 ![]() |
Mostly the Contacts are missing now. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
Does everything look alright so far? Bye Thanee |
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#46
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Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 3,414 Joined: 1-September 11 From: Seattle Member No.: 37,075 ![]() |
@Beta
Ah, Fagin! The guy who we buy our sloth medications from. I generally rule that there's a shop/kit for each Engineering skill (Automotive Mechanic, Aeronautics Mechanic, etc.) although I grant that a similarly-sized ground drone and air drone probably have more in common than an air drone does with a plane. I wouldn't be opposed to a "drone repair" kit that covers things smaller than an automobile. I suppose it works out the same either way: either you need two kits for different skills (Automotive vs. Aeronautics) or two kits based on size (drone vs. vehicle). On THAT note: @All I haven't spent much time thinking about the new Lifestyle and things we might want to include, like a garage. It might be best to brainstorm that together. I believe the plan is to maintain SIS HQ in Redmond, but simply as an office rather than a residence (that might be blown up if we anger the wrong people). Separately, in the name of NOT powergaming let's not aim for F6 power foci. Not yet, anyway. Let's start small and work our way up from there. If we want to artifice some F1 and F2 foci - or some qi tattoos - then that's cool but let's introduce them slowly. @Thanee I'm reviewing Raven and should have some thoughts later this afternoon/evening. We should be able to start the Interlude before long, like tonight or tomorrow. What time zone are you? We're stretched all across North America, Europe, and the Middle East. |
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#47
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Neophyte Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,065 Joined: 21-July 14 From: Northern UCAS (with regular trips to Quebec) Member No.: 190,206 ![]() |
@Thanee just a couple of thoughts after having looking over Raven.
- We already have one shapechange caster in the group (Bobby is an adept but has that spell through the Adept Spell power). On the one hand it can become a lot of shape changing if two are doing it, and on aonther it is a pretty central part of Bobby's character, so maybe crowding his 'thing'. I don't know how central to your concept of Raven that is, but would a specific Critter Form work instead? (such as raven?) It would create some space between the characters while still giving Raven an alternate form. - Control thoughts is definitely one of those 'use with care' spells. Not saying don't take it, just remember that SIS is a somewhat legitimate business with an address and even a small matrix presence. Getting a reputation as mind rapists would be bad for business (except for the kind that is its own sort of trouble). It is a bit different from ShadowRunners who are doing their best to be anonymous. |
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#48
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Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 4,990 Joined: 18-September 13 From: Germany Member No.: 154,444 ![]() |
I have no problem with someone else also having shapechange - I invested pretty heavily into various qualities to turn the spell into what it can do now. I suspect Raven will have many other things to spend Karma on (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
As for powergaming: Yeah, that wasn't a recommendation to blow everything up with foci (just the original text I wrote back then), but just a tipp how you can dabble in artificing and still get some good results. Oh and yes: If control thoughts goes sideways, Bobby will have to flush another witness down the toilet. |
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#49
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 5,167 Joined: 12-June 16 From: Israel Member No.: 200,423 ![]() |
@Thanee when you say Raven is "Living on the streets?" Do you mean literally living in the streets?
How does that combine with doing alchemy (and perhaps having a lab) and with being a mage in general, magical lodge and so forth? |
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#50
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Neophyte Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,065 Joined: 21-July 14 From: Northern UCAS (with regular trips to Quebec) Member No.: 190,206 ![]() |
And to add that Tamarind is locked down now. I decided to keep the skills and ware as they were, and spent a bit on better mechanic autosofts and added a respirator and ammo(!)
To-do early in the game will be to get her RCC modified to have a stealth rating of 1, to go with the R1 attack dongle, allowing her to throw edge at using certain Electronic Warfare actions. |
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