The Found Arcana - Chapter 9 [OOC] Options

[Jack_Spade]

Crunch is the worst.

Sure, OCC, my priorities are in order:

- Surive and get paid
- Get paid extra
- Get some use out of the suite
- Get some Halloweeners killed
- Roomservice

Bobby will be hard to convince to let someone else take the heat from having the card. He had a bad time with seeing Mato splattered across the street.

[Gilga]

Hi, I am back. It was a blast.

[Tecumseh]

@gilga Excellent news. Welcome back.

@all I like Jack's list pretty well. Mato doesn't really care about getting Halloweeners killed, and would probably prefer to skip that step in order to avoid antagonizing them further. He's hoping Vala's card can rot them from the inside out.

As for the "sell directly to Nightmare" option, Mato doesn't think that's a viable approach based on his understanding of Vala's instructions:

As to what I need from you guys. You take the card, and when you are ready my people would spread the romour. Then all the power-hungry mages of Seattle would be after your card. You need to hold on to the card, only to lose it to a specific unreputable individual. If you lose it to the wrong people, you have to make them lose the card within a short period. Again, I don't want anyone examining the card too closely or they might solve my puzzle, and then the mystery is gone.

She pauses and says Once you lost the card to the intended mark, I would pay you the promised 50K.

Perhaps I'm reading too much into the "lose/lost" phrasing - and maybe gilga can chime in on this point - but I took that to mean that we want to fool Nightmare into getting the card, or to otherwise convince Nightmare that we don't want the Halloweeners to have the card, rather than just rolling up and saying, "Hey sworn enemy, would you like one of these? Not a trick, we swear."

[Beta]

My understanding lines up with Tecumseh's. Mind you, were Nightmare to try to trick us into selling the card to it(using an intermediary) I think that would be fine, as long as it could plausibly think we were trying to keep it out of its clutches.

For priorities I'm aligned on Jack's first two, and don't care about the rest (other than using the suite to 'get paid more' in some way). Tamarind has spent most of the last few years moving between smuggler way stations up in the mile+ high mountains of the FRFZ, even SIS seems pretty luxurious to her.

[Gilga]

@gilga Excellent news. Welcome back.

@all I like Jack's list pretty well. Mato doesn't really care about getting Halloweeners killed, and would probably prefer to skip that step in order to avoid antagonizing them further. He's hoping Vala's card can rot them from the inside out.

As for the "sell directly to Nightmare" option, Mato doesn't think that's a viable approach based on his understanding of Vala's instructions:


Perhaps I'm reading too much into the "lose/lost" phrasing - and maybe gilga can chime in on this point - but I took that to mean that we want to fool Nightmare into getting the card, or to otherwise convince Nightmare that we don't want the Halloweeners to have the card, rather than just rolling up and saying, "Hey sworn enemy, would you like one of these? Not a trick, we swear."

1. The run is successful if the card ends with Nightmare.
2. Selling the card to Nightmare gives Vala an excuse not to pay you. She wants Nightmare to take the card by force or trickery.
3. She seeks for the other collectors to feel that they missed another card to Nightmare. That is the essence of her task.

1-3 does not exactly prevent you from making more money out of the card, but selling it to someone else has a risk. You would not be paid if that someone else does not lose the card to Nightmare. Which means you would be conning the buyer. As in selling him the card, and then tipping Nightmare off somehow which is fine because it is SR and fits the theme, but it has risks for your reputation and the potential of making new rivals.


I did not mean for it to be very cryptic, so feel free to ask questions. In any case, I am flexible enough for multiple outcomes so don't feel like you have to do it a certain manner or the game breaks.

E.g., I also had plans in case you refuse to work with Vala (which I assumed was possible considering her behavior, but I see her as kind of my way or the high-way kind of person.).

[Jack_Spade]

Vala trying to weasle out because we get paid by someone else too, would put her very high on Bobby's drek list. After all, that wasn't the deal.

My stated priorities are more of a wish list after the first one, with less and less priority as you go down.

I think we should at least make the attempt to extort Nightmare. The best revenge is a good life - and we already stated to a lot of people that we would let our grudge go if they pay us restitution. I think there would be nothing suspicious if we use the card as leverage.

I agree that we probably should prepare a secondary safe place with a strong ward - preferably somewhere very defensible. Though Tamarind could employ her drones outside the hotel as a perimeter guard.

[Tecumseh]

I would say that the job as described by gilga lines up with what Mato understood from Vala. It isn't getting paid twice that's a no-no, but getting paid by Nightmare that's outside the parameters of the job. Mato understood it that way too.

And I personally find the reputational components of this to be fascinating. Do we:
1) "lose" the card to Nightmare and look like we failed; or,
2) sell it to someone else knowing that Nightmare will get it from them (perhaps violently), getting paid twice in the process, but knowing that we used the buyer like bait on a hook?

How mercenary are we really? Time to find out!

(Mato probably thinks there are enough unpleasant people in the world to make #2 work and not feel too guilty about it, but it will be interesting for Tamarind and Raven to vote too.)

[Gilga]

Off-topic - I figured I shouldn't have copied existing Tarot cards, but could use Dall-e mini (new machine-learning algorithm to generate funny looking cards from a description). Just for example I did "desired tarot card" check it out.

AI generated Tarot card
Then I tried some other keywords (death and robots).
AI generated Tarot card second try

[Tecumseh]

Trying to Intimidate Mr. Bundy:

Charisma 4 + Intimidation 2 + Physically Imposing 3 + Infrasonic Generator 4 - Suspicious 1: 12d6t5 3 hits

Psh, not good enough. Mato wants to browbeat this guy. Edging it:

Edge reroll: 9d6t5 4 hits

7 hits total. Social Limit is 5, boosted to 6 by Mato's suit. So 6 hits total.

[Gilga]

Anything you want to do before the meeting with Tony?

[Tecumseh]

Nothing on my end. We had talked about sending Raven and Tamarind to go get some extra clothes and toiletries, but now we're leaning away from even staying at the hotel so maybe that's unnecessary.

[Jack_Spade]

Yeah, I'm also ready to talk directly.

[Thanee]

Yes, we need to come to a decision about what we are going to do. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

Bye
Thanee

[Gilga]

So just so I know, who keeps the card while you do logistics?

[Jack_Spade]

That depends: does the case fit in Mato's smuggling compartment? But in general, I think Mato or Bobby would carry it with them.

[Thanee]

It's a tarot card, why would it not fit into a smuggling compartment? They are not that big. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Bye
Thanee

[Jack_Spade]

Bad things happened last time when we touched it directly. A magically shielded container might be a bit larger (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Gilga]

The casing is about a small laptop in size. I am not sure how large these are, but as they are hidden in a very large arm, I guess that the case is too bulky. I am not feeling strongly about it in case you envision these cyber arms as much bigger than myself. So the card fits easily, the casing not so much.

[Tecumseh]

Sorry for the delay. All my games are on/active right now, I'm juggling a new computer, and have been single-parenting all week.

Fair questions about the card. Some of it depends on what happened "off-screen" so to speak.

My original intention was to have Mato carry the card around, but when gilga said that the case was the size of a shoebox then I knew it wouldn't fit in his smuggling compartment. I didn't end up saying definitively one way or the other what he would do with it.

(Mato has a regular-sized smuggling compartment, which is sufficient for a light pistol. The card would fit, but not the box. There is a "large smuggling compartment" that, per the rules, is about the size of a breadbox and would conceivably fit the card's box, but that's not the version that Mato has.)

To Jack's point, Mato is very cautious based on his experience with a card back in Chapter II. He's willing to carry the card but wants to be under close observation while he does so.

As for our current situation, if people had stayed behind in the room then Mato would have left it there. But I'm going to say that we're all in the room with Tony. I know Jawsey hasn't said one way or the other about Tamarind, but Mato wants a buddy system so if Raven/Bobby/Mato are with Tony then Mato would want Tamarind to be here too so that she's not alone and thus vulnerable. Because we're all in the room and we certainly wouldn't leave the card unguarded, I would suggest that Mato has the card on his person in the smuggling compartment (in his left leg).

Does that work for everyone? I agree that it would be better in a biofiber pocket or shielded somehow going forward.

[Beta]

Sorry for falling silent. The last bit with work was all-consuming, but we finally pushed out the release with a few hours to spare yesterday, and the adrenaline is finally fading enough to sit down and focus on anything else. It will probably be tomorrow before I post IC (I promised my son that I'd run Shadowrun tonight for the first time in a few weeks (I need to go remember what was happening next). I'll finish reading the more recent IC posts, but probably won't post until Monday.

[Thanee]

Is it possible to determine what level that BGC is down there?

Bye
Thanee

[Thanee]

Uhm. Why would we have to pay for any credit at checkout? That makes no sense to me at all. Isn't that the money that Vala deposited there, that should go to us (minus the 20k, of course)?

How are we supposed to get our payment in the end?

And the suite, that Vala mentioned as a "bonus" at some point, isn't actually paid for, yet, but has to be paid from the same 20k that we, according to what Vala has said, are to lose on the gambling tables? But gambling away the money there also fulfills the payment for the suite?

Bye
Thanee

[Gilga]

The room costs 20k - you can spend that 20k in the casino. The price is a bit inflated because of it. I factored the suite as a 10k bonus to your total pay since you can gamble 20k on roulette and either get 20k extra or lose 20k in roughly 50/50 probability. (well, 48/100 if I remember correctly). So on expectation, it is worth, says, 10k.

Regardless of paying for the suite - you have a line of credit of 70k, and you owe the casino 70k. So you have all the money you want, but you need to get it back.
20k of these 70k are refundable by gambling losses - to pay for the room. 50k you should, in principle, give back, but Vala promised to pay the Casno once you complete her job. In that case, you walk away with 50k as agreed upon and leave 20k (one way or another to the casino). You got all the money in advance as you asked.


Does that make sense? Sorry for keeping it so complicated - I assumed Vala would like to distance herself from directly paying you, so I added the casino in the middle.

[Thanee]

It's just a little confusing. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

And, I believe, you are contradicting yourself occasionally.

For example, I asked in the beginning, what happens, when we gamble with those 20k and win something, can we keep those winnings (assuming, of course, we still gamble away the initial 20k). You said no. Now, in the post above, it sounds like we can. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

And how can we lose 20k gambling? That is not our money. If we spend those 20k gambling, we havn't lost anything. But if we double it, i.e. win another 20k, we would have won 20k, since the initial 20k still have to go to the casino for payments. It's either +20k or 0, not +20k or -20k.

Anyways...


At this point, we have 70k in "virtual money", and 70k debt to the casino.

The 50k, that is our payment, assuming everything goes well, we can keep (the casino will pay us out), and Vala will settle the debt with the casino (I assumed she did that in advance, but that seems to be wrong), effectively paying us that way. If things do not go well, and we receive no or just partial payment, Vala will settle that part, and we have to give back the rest to fill the 50k to the casino ("giving back" being more methaphoric here, since it is all virtual and a line of credit instead of real money currently).

But that means, we havn't actually gotten any money in advance, just borrowed some money, since we still need Vala to actually give it to the casino.

The 20k, we can either just pay for the suite, basically just giving it back to the casino, or use to gamble (which is just more fun, obviously, so we will totally do that), thereby also giving it to the casino by losing it (still unsure about what happens with any extra money, in case we win some...). Even if we use the gambling route, the suite is considered paid for. Vala will, regardless of the outcome of this whole thing, settle this 20k debt with the casino.

Bye
Thanee

[Gilga]

You got it right, sorry for being ambiguous about it - I meant the same thing all the time.

1. If you win at gambling, you still pay 20k for the suite but whatever you have above 20k is yours to keep.
2. If you lose at gambling, the casino would discount the suite according to your loss, so if you lost 20k you do not need to pay for the suite. (the suite is priced relatively high to other high-end hotels).