Why not design Permanent Increase Attribute Spells?, more spell abuse by the rules Options

[tisoz]

Why would anyone learn a sustained Increase Attribute spell (Drain code (+1)M) when they could learn a permanent version of the spell and not have to sustain it or worry about wards or Sustaining Foci costs or spending karma to bond those foci? All for -1 to the Drain Power and a 1 time hit of +1 to Drain Level.

The smart spellcaster will even permanently raise his and his entire teams Initiative Dice first, before making it harder by raising Reaction, or Intelligence and Quickness which indirectly raise Reaction.

Thn there is also no reason NPCs wouldn't do the same thing and eventually 3 is no longer average, more like 5 or 6 is the new average. But then again, it would be more difficut to hit those high TNs for like troll or ork Strength and Body or even elf Charisma, so the entire playing field rises overall, but flattens out.

[tisoz]

Even better, the spell could be learned at force 2, so the Drain would be TN2. Just keep casting it until you get to the desired boost or give up hitting the Attribute TN.

[Kagetenshi]

In a world (or game) where use of the spell design rules is unsupervised or presumptively legal, the only reason to learn a temporary Increase Attribute spell would be the niche case of wanting to be able to improve someone without doing so permanently. One example might be improving the Strength of a dog to use it as a pack animal, then letting it drop back to the original value so you don’t need a super-reinforced kennel.

Otherwise the answer is “because the GM is never going to sign off on the permanent version”.

~J

[Cochise]

Otherwise the answer is “because the GM is never going to sign off on the permanent version”.

... and at least as far as 3rd Ed is concerned the design rules on meta level already strongly advise against it before handing it over to the GM:

As a general rule, if the spell provides some sort of game bonus (other than restorative), the effect should not be permanent.

followed by

The gamemaster has the final say on whether it is possible to create a permanent version of a spell.

So why not design a Permanent Increase Attribute Spell? Because not only are the design rules usually prefaced with something like

Because spell design cannot be reduced to pure numbers, these rules offer guidelines that provide a feel for the scale of spells and their effects. The procedure described in this section allows players to design spells that maintain game balance while providing plenty of leeway for creativity.

but paragraphs on stuff like duration do their best to show - with examples and those first two sentences I mentioned - where the balance line should be drawn not just by the GM but the player doing the design. Now I'd simply play that back at tisoz by asking:

• Do you feel that designing a permanent Increase Attribute spell would maintain "game balance"?
• Do see the effect as being something that grants a bonus outside the restorative exemption?
• Do you really expect a GM to allow the spell and then not directly apply the motto "what goes around comes around" with NPCs doing the same?

[Kren Cooper]

• Do you feel that designing a permanent Increase Attribute spell would maintain "game balance"?
• Do see the effect as being something that grants a bonus outside the restorative exemption?
• Do you really expect a GM to allow the spell and then not directly apply the motto "what goes around comes around" with NPCs doing the same?

Exactly this, at least at our tables.

[KCKitsune]

Why would anyone learn a sustained Increase Attribute spell (Drain code (+1)M) when they could learn a permanent version of the spell and not have to sustain it or worry about wards or Sustaining Foci costs or spending karma to bond those foci? All for -1 to the Drain Power and a 1 time hit of +1 to Drain Level.

Because you would light up astral space like a Christmas tree.
Also, Mana barriers would block you from entering places. That's why foci have to be brought down before crossing a barrier.

[Cochise]

Because you would light up astral space like a Christmas tree.

No?! Or do you want to claim that a heal / treat spell lights you up on the astral space like a Christmas tree? The thing that really "lights" you up (depending on interpretation of how Astral Perception works) are pretty much only sustained spells with their own aura not instant or permanent ones once the permanence has been achieved. A magical Signature potentially being present "for ever" is something else entirely (and no the signature wouldn't stick either in case of a permanent spell under RAW).

Also, Mana barriers would block you from entering places.

Nope again, otherwise any treat / heal spell applied to a character that has become permanent would also block that person from ever going through an Astral Barrier again (or potentially reverse the permanent healing effect)

That's why foci have to be brought down before crossing a barrier.

Wrong, having to "bring down" foci (or alternatively "phase" them through via Masking if available) before crossing a barrier is because active foci (whether they sustain a spell or not) have an actual astral "body" that will colide with the Astral Barrier.

You are confusing quickened spells via the metatechnique "Quickening" (incl. the sub variant of "Tatoo magic") that is used to endlessly sustain a normally sustained spell without a focus or the caster's concentration vs. an actually permanent spell.

[Bodak]

not have to sustain it or worry about wards or Sustaining Foci costs or spending karma to bond those foci?

A budget way to achieve this is usually through Ritual Sorcery. You pay for the Ritual Materials and you pick a victim who is an Initiate with Reflecting. They're going to miss out on the benefits, and take one for the team. The Ritual Sorcery team leader can trivially see the Initiate victim, so Targeting, Linking and Sending steps are expedited. The Ritual Leader then casts Increase Willpower (or whatever) and the Initiate dumps all their mojo into Reflecting: "a reflected spell targets the entire ritual team" (MitS.36). The team leader then allocates dice to sustaining the spell which lasts for #dice x Magic of leader in hours (MitS.38). The ritual members then go about their day with a spell sustained on them without sustaining penalty, focus, or elemental.

It's not as powerful as the proposed permanent spell, but it's a way to get a low-cost high-yield boost.