certified cred, untraceable? Options

[Caine Hazen]

I like Xirces point, but I'd compair the Cred credstick to a cashiers/travelers check. There is a certian amount of traceablity in it.. It has to have some sort of "back trace" to legitimize the cash on it or money laudering would be cert-crazy. Now since it is for a certified amount you can cash it almost anywhere and turn it into non traceable script, and then place the script into a new cert-stick or your own credstick ect... if played right you can make the money untracable. I'd force my runners to play it smart...maybe even have Fixers demand that they do a transfer before doing bussiness (this is what big time fixers keep Deckers on retainer for I'm sure)

[Erebus]

I've always run that the nuyen on certified credsticks is "traceable" as each transaction is still logged by the stick and the reader. The important difference between certified and regular though is that those transactions could have been done by anybody since there is no identity check to authorize a transaction.

[Nikoli]

Bingo. Very well put Erebus. The system doesn't give a frag who used it, only that it was used (and where)

[Veracusse]

However, the store themselves can care. If Joe runner is buying his favorite weapon from Weapon's World with a credstick, WWorld might eitehr a) not sell him the weapon unless he uses his credstick with ID, b) say who cares and let him buy it useing the certified credstick, or c) let him buy it with his certified credstick and then make him slot his real credstick for ID and tracking purposes. PLus Weapons World might also want to know where the money on the Certified Credstick is comming from, because they do not want to be known as a legal establishment that takes cred from such unsavory places as Shadowrunner money.

On in all. Yes. Different stores, banks, and establishments would want to know where the money is comming from and if that money is clean. No one wants to be caught red handed with bad money. So Certified Credsticks will be traceable to some degree, probably depending on the bank or institution that issued the certified credstick on how and what ways it can be trackable. A good reputation is also important in the legal business world of Shadowrun also.

Veracusse

[Erebus]

Veracusse, in regards to what I said previously, that is above and beyond the money issue. If the items being purchased need permits, than its not just a matter of money when buying them legally.

Certified credsticks are "Certified" which means they are legal and good, backed by whoever issued the credstick (either a corp, a bank, or a government). They will be accepted wherever normal credsticks are and will be tracable just like other credsticks. Now if the item your buying requires ID and a permit than you still need to provide that. The reciever of funds from a certified credstick need not worry about the funds if they are encoded on the stick since they will be backed by the issuer of the credstick.

The only difference between a certified credstick and a regular one is a regular one requires proof of identity before releasing funds... thus tying a particular SIN/Person to the transaction. Whereas with certified credsticks, that is not normally the case... unless Lone Star goes to the Stuffer Shack and requests the Video Feed for the transaction, or your dumb enough to buy a permitted weapon legally from a store using your certified credstick to pay, and your normal credstick for ID/Permits... [Edited: It would have been better for the runner to transfer :nuyen: from the certified stick to his "legal" stick then make the purchase since he could always state he got the cred from someone else... thus distancing himself from the certified credstick and its datatrail.]

[Veracusse]

Erebus,

[Backgammon]

[Nikoli]

They'll know which stick made the purchase, but not always who held the stick. but, the same face shows up on cameras at the last five uses guess who is suspect #1 for owner of said stick?

[Erebus]

Veracusse & Nikoli,

Exactly. The certified credstick tracks the nuyen not the person... but someone can use the certified credstick's nuyen trail to track down other relevant info on the person using it to create that trail.

[Nikoli]

Would be a good job for an otaku with infor sortiledge

[Veracusse]

This is what shadowruns are all about ;)

Certified credstick means that the nuyen is certified, not the person holding the credstick. Backgammon, when I am refering to traceable I mean, the credit on the stick. If a person, and this usually applies to my players, were to transfer nuyen from their regular credstick onto a certified credstick then that nuyen could be traced back to the user. If someone were to decide that the certified credstick in question was used for illegal purposes they may very well trace it back to the characters account his real credstick is attached to, since that was the source of the nuyen anyway. And that can mean big trouble.

Now of course there can be some deniability since that person could have given it to someone else and there is not much data that can trace that, but at least a trail could be traced back to where the nuyen came from, and even then the Feds might be suspicious. The last thing that any shadowrunner wants is the Feds (or someone worse!!) being suspicious of them or on their electronic trail.

Also another point that I was trying to make earlier (not very well I guess), is that different institutions that issue certified credsticks may put information on the stick other than the nuyen amount itself. Information of the owner for example could be transfered onto the stick: place of purchase, purchaseing records, the size of your characters briefs, etc. This information could be transfered secretly or done in the open with the stick holders full awareness. There are no universal laws in the 6th world governing this, and with many borders and Corps with extraterritoriality you can never be too sure what information people know about you, or what information you may be involuntarily spreading to the wrong sources. In the SSG pg. 38 it mentions different tricks that some banks (and I assume corps and other organizations as well) use when they issue certified credsticks.

One other thing, the bank issueing the certified credstick will most likely keep a record of it. They do it today with checks, bank drafts, money orders, and even cash withdrawals, so there is no reason why they won't do it 60 years from now. I would also guess that they probably would put the actual nuyen into a temporary holding account that has the exact same amount as is on the certified credstick. When the certified credstick is used it will communicate back to the bank and the temp account, and then make the nuyen transfer updateing the certified credstick in the process. This will help in reducing fraud and other illegal activities, plus give more insurance to the bank when it is handing out its money. Also this allows them to collect more data on the use of the credstick as well.

Tangental:
One of the points about Shadowrun is security, paranoia, and the constant barrage of useless (and sometimes very usefull) data about everyone that is floating around through the matrix. The way some portray certified cred (the way it is sometimes portrayed in the books) is almost counterintuitive to the way the 6th world opperates.

Veracusse

[Kanada Ten]

[Cain]

The thing to remember, V, is that while the cred transfers can potentially be traced, there's nothing solid that can be used to link it back. As Kanada pointed out, the credstick could have been issued by a holding company; and then transferred a few dozen times, through a few dozen different banking systems, to the shiny credstick in your pocket. If a shadowrunner keeps rotating his credsticks, there's no real way of tracing it anymore.

[Backgammon]

I'm with you on that Veracusse, but also with Cain's addendum. The certified cred buyer can be traced, but there isn't much point.

[Veracusse]

And I would like to add that I am with Backgammon, Cain, Kanada, and others who have recently posted. :D

But, not everyone is this cautious with their cred and certified credsticks. I had to alert my players to this, as a possible GM Oppurtunity to get the pcs. :]

[Cain]

You have a point. I tend to assume that any savvy shadowrunner will be rotating his credsticks on a regular basis-- making a dozen transfers from stick to stick to stick, or pre-calculating the exact amount of cred needed, so he can simply hand over the stick instead of doing a transfer. I'd certainly be alongside your decision to educate your players in this reality, although I'd be gentler about it than you seem to be.

[BitBasher]

In my game we simplify it down to having specific Moneu Launderer contacts, or Fixers can perform the service for a higher percentage. Fixers can do damn near everything for a higher percentage though.

[Veracusse]

Well I tend to run a tough game. When players come up with new and ingenious ways to keep themselves out of the spotlight, (i.e. not leaving any trails) I reward them well.

One of my players IC said to a new pc who was going to join the team: "There is an easier way to make a nuyen than shadowrunning." And he is right, but the newbie joined the team anyway. When players sit down they know they are not comming for a happy little adventure, but are going to play as a bunch of criminals who have a tough life. At least I try to make their lives tough. They all seem to really enjoy it, and tell me to keep bringing it on.

[edit]
Nuyen is the life blood of shadowrunning and I really make them earn it and pay for it. Besides all of these little details can sure make for interesting shadowruns and shadowplots.

Veracusse

[Veracusse]

Most pcs also use their fixer or other appropriate contacts. Although their contacts are definitely going to take a cut of the money. But one of my pcs didn't want to loose the money and decided to launder his own nuyen. We did a little research on money laundering and came up with a plan. It has worked so far,......but I think it is about time I look at his little money laundering scheme again. :vegm:

Veracusse