Ghoul Adpets, Yet another Ghoul thread. Options

[Paul]

Okay I realize there are at least eight decent ghoul threads out there, and I am searching those as I type this, but just in case I'll cover my bases.

Ghouls are naturally blind, as per the blind flaw page 19 of the SR Companion. Now it says Cybernetic replacements/enhancements can't fix this flaw, but what about Adpet Powers? I.e. Low Light vision, or Thermographic Vision? At first I am inclined to say the spirit of the flaw is that these too would not help you, but you pay for Adept Powers with Power Points, which is a lot like the essence for cyber process-its a part of you.

What would you do?

[Omega Skip]

I wouldn't allow it. If you're blind and get cybereyes installed, you just wasted essence. If you are blind and get improved sight of any kind, you just wasted power points.

[Entropy Kid]

If willing to take the hit to Essence (and further hit to Magic) getting cybereyes is the solution. It's mentioned in the entry for ghoul characters in SR Companion. I expect the page reference for the flaw was so they wouldn't have to write the TN changes again.

I don't think the Improved Sense power should work with cybereyes. Since ghouls are blind, I don't think the Improved Sense power would work, there not being a sense to improve- but I'd allow a power that granted normal vision, then IS should work fine. Haven't considered cost for a "normal vision" power, but 0.25 is probably enough. I don't think a "normal vision" power would make ghoul eyes appear normal, but cosmetic surgery doesn't cost Essense and could fix that.

As for the Blindess Flaw- I hate that thing. It makes no sense to me, except maybe for magically active characters. I've heard of vision conditions where the problem was with part of the brain, but considering cerebral boosters, encephalons, the math SPU, and all the other pieces of brain-ware available I don't see why such conditions couldn't be cured Essence free or worst case scenario, at some minor cost.

I also believe "If it isn't a disadvantage, you don't get any points for it." That's why it doesn't exist for me. My argument is about the flaw itself, not how easy or hard it should be to by pass. I don't believe there should be any truely blind (physically without astral perception) shadowrunners. If they don't fix their condition, they're not up to living a shadowrunning life style.

IMO it should be listed under magical flaws. Blindess (magically active only) -2. They can fix it if they want, but lose some Essence (or get Bio Index, doesn't really matter) and still have to "buy off" the flaw.

This post has been edited by Entropy Kid: May 26 2004, 06:48 PM

[Siege]

You can argue it either way -- doctors may be absolutely baffled as to why these implants don't work. "But...but...it should work!"

Or chalk it up to another "doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but it's in the book as either a game balance or just another 'huh?' ruling."

-Siege

[shadd4d]

Or ship your ghoul to a shadow clinic to see if they can get around that blind flaw. If he's got DNA in him, we can change it. Check out SOTA 2063.

Don

[Abstruse]

I never play ghouls and none of my PCs are stupid enough to have tried yet so I haven't read the other forums about ghouls, but what about Grid Reaper? In Target: Matrix they say he has a pair of glowing red cybereyes to get around the blindness problem...

The Abstruse One

[Lantzer]

Entropy Kid, I understand why the Blindness flaw is written the way it is. It's so the street sam who's gotten cybereyes doesn't take the flaw for freebie points.

I tend to go with an old Champions adage: "If it isn't a disadvantage, you don't get any points for it".

It's traditional, and predictable (if a bit annoying) for PCs to try to get around their flaws. Has anyone every seen a wheelchair-bound 'runner who wasn't a rigger or mage? (Actually, i've never seen a wheelchair-bound runner. I guess our players know their GMs.)

[toturi]

Why the hell are you getting cyber eyes for your ghoul? I proved in one other thread that (at least by Canon rules) ghouls already get around the Blind flaw through their dual nature.

[booklord]

[shadd4d]

Sure, a bug spirit ain't going to sneak up on them, but someone with no scent can pull that one off in the real world. It's still dicey if the astral perception lets them get around the problems of physical blindness. I assume that the nerves only can percieve the astral, which does remove a lot of visual data.

It's just something you go around and around trying to figure out how both work together. I always assumed that astral input was based on astral perception with the other senses with the caveat that you "know" what's in front of you on the astral without having to grope around. That's the best way, IMO, according to logic.

Don

[Siege]

If a Sam (or anyone else) tries to end-run a flaw, the GM should have the right to alter the flaw to something else fitting the character.

Unless the negative amount of the flaw is bought off with karma, the character still suffers X-amount of negative stuff in his or her life.

-Siege

[Paul]

Yeah I am of the Ghoul flaws don't always make sense. I understand the concept of game balance, and well I just don't see Ghoul's as all that unbalanced in comparison to say the Face Archetype.

Thanks to all, I was just curious. I ended up not taking any vision enhancements for my adept powers.