 Just what is an 'assault cannon'?, Panther exaples in the real world? |
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 May 28 2004, 08:21 PM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 19 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Near Norwich, GB Member No.: 1,659  |
Ok, for a while now I've been wondering (as the topic title suggests) just what in tarnation an assault cannon actually is?
What does it fire? How big is it? How long? Is there any thing man portable like it in the real world? Basically just what the heck is that troll carrying? Any thoughts, ideas and/or references would be much appreciated by my troubled mind. Ferrit |
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May 28 2004, 08:30 PM
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#2
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Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,577 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gwynedd Valley PA Member No.: 1,221 |
It fires a really really big shell, like a big hollow tipped round. The best thing I can find in the easy media is in the final battle in Saving Private Ryan. When the Germans roll up a 20 mm AA gun and blast the men on the tank.
Made to shred light vehicals and structures without exposing the gunner to counter fire, is is leathal to metahumans. (Think about is, a shot designed to break a Honda hitting your lil' ol' body.) That's generally what we see as the cannon. |
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May 28 2004, 08:38 PM
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#3
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Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033 |
That or in the original Robocop, that monstrosity they are playing with when they lure him to the junk yard.
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May 28 2004, 08:39 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 669 Joined: 25-May 03 Member No.: 4,634 |
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May 28 2004, 08:41 PM
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#5
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Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,577 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gwynedd Valley PA Member No.: 1,221 |
Yeah, that's good to. same idea, but set in a cyberpunk setting. The only problem I have with that is those guns had a blast and the autocannons don't, that's why I went with the 20mm in 'Private Ryan. |
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May 28 2004, 08:42 PM
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#6
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Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033 |
Don't they have AC's in SR already, that description is a huge bore machine gun. almost exactly like the 20mm pop-gun used byt he germans in Privat Ryan (also the dip-shit in Lock, Stock and two smoking barrels)
An assault cannon fires an explosive round the size of a large cigar (maybe a little bigger) |
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May 28 2004, 08:58 PM
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#7
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
Bigger, I'd say. In real life, you're looking at a dedicated, man portable, single user operable antimatériel platform in the 20-25mm range.
Of course, it's also possible to interpret it as a breech loaded, frictionally dampened man portable cannon in the 80-85mm range like the HIWS (High Impulse Weapon System) that showed up at Blackwater. Personally, I think of that as a separate type of system. |
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May 28 2004, 08:59 PM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 403 Joined: 27-August 02 From: Scotland Member No.: 3,175 |
There's a picture of a Panther Cannon in one of the old SR2 books, probably Fields of Fire.
Basically just a really big cannon (I guess about 1.6m long at least) that fires huge explosive shells, 20mm or something crazy. I don't quite know how a metahuman, even one with Str and Bod 8, can fire one standing up, but it's possible it seems! Weighs 18kg acording to CC. Which, in SR terms, is about 1.5x what an HMG weighs. Pretty damn heavy! |
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May 28 2004, 08:59 PM
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#9
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Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033 |
And, it's a shaped charge, hence no AoE around the target, except from secondary explosions from fuel, etc. Personally I think it could make for a great sniper eapon, using the right magic to keep the beast quiet.
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May 28 2004, 09:11 PM
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#10
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Silence on the cannon itself, Silence on the round.
~J |
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May 28 2004, 09:14 PM
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#11
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Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033 |
Wow, that would be creey, just an explosion in front of you, no noise, no shockwave, just BAM, and your buddy is a radio-smear
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May 28 2004, 09:18 PM
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#12
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
I wouldn't allow that, personally. Silence on the cannon? Sure, you get a silently operating cannon. No noise generated from rattling part or a moving action. Silence on round? No noise if you drop it. But silence on an explosion? That's a bit much for me.
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May 28 2004, 09:25 PM
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#13
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King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127 |
I always figured that things like the Panther worked on some sort of mechanism similiar to recoilless rifles. But I never really considered it that much.
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May 28 2004, 09:26 PM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 749 Joined: 22-June 02 From: Parts Without Member No.: 2,897 |
The Panther Assualt Cannon is what Hachetman (of blessed memory) calls "Grade-A bang-bang" in the 2nd Ed. Street Samauri catalogue. The weapon itself looks like a very long-barreled, bull-pup configuration firearm, with an unexpected pistol-grip and no stock to speak of. The cannon has a hip-brace and shoulder strap. It fires a "stable, superplast explosive warhead." In short, it will mess up anyone and anything, short of a battle tank... or just a van with a lot of armor and high-ish body.
As an anti-personel weapon, though, the Panther is the single-shot way to go. |
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| Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_* |
May 28 2004, 09:33 PM
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#15
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Guests |
Street Samurai Catalog, p.60. It looks like a very large-bore gun. The thing is, it has a magazine (bullpup configuration) which SCC gives a 22-rd capacity. The mag's not that big relative to the PAC. The shells are on page 64 of SSC, and they look like, well, like big bullets. If the image was a 1:1 ratio, they would be ~4.5" long. I figured that they fire just like bullets, but are large enough to put the explosive round further downrange, and the shell is big enough to contain a stable explosive ("HDX superplast"). The damn thing is probably 6 feet long if it's a foot, especially when you look at the size of the 22-rd mag compared to the rest of the PAC. [edit] The Hatchetman quote was in the 1st ed. SSC, too. Actually, the shells look to be not much bigger than a .50 BMG round now that I think about it. Other than the fact that they are 1" in diameter and don't taper like .50 BMG rounds do. |
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May 28 2004, 09:48 PM
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#16
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Well, it's certainly arguable that when the round explodes that it's no longer a round, so the Silence spell would drop. ~J |
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May 28 2004, 10:05 PM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 407 Joined: 22-March 04 Member No.: 6,183 |
Technically, as soon as the bullet leaves the case, it's no longer a round, either.
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May 28 2004, 10:21 PM
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#18
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Cast it on the bullet itself, then. You couldn't cast it on the round anyway, as it's multiple objects (bullet+casing+propellant, etc).
Except some people won't think of it that way. Ah, the craziness… ~J |
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May 28 2004, 10:41 PM
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#19
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
Well, if you cast it on the bullet, you get a bullet that does not create sound on impact or, assuming it's supersonic, sound in flight— which I find a little hard to believe, considering the elements in play, but since you'd have to cast it on the gun and every round you're going to fire, chances are it's not that unbalanced. I still wouldn't allow silencing of explosions of any sort, which just creates way too many problems all around.
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May 28 2004, 10:57 PM
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#20
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
It's area-effect, you wouldn't have to cast it on the gun. Every new bullet, though, would have to have the spell.
~J |
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May 28 2004, 11:01 PM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 407 Joined: 22-March 04 Member No.: 6,183 |
Make every bullet a sustaining focus. Or, if you have Karma to spare, quicken a silence spell to each one. :wobble:
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May 28 2004, 11:08 PM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 269 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 752 |
"Cobra Assault Cannon, Grade A Bang Bang!" - Robocop
becomes Panther Assault Cannon in the movie it was just a Barrett M82 with some funky gizmos on it it's kind of like a Anti-Material Rifle or it's less powerful cousin the Anti-Tank Rifle but nothing like it really exists. what cartridge it fires is speculation. look at this page http://web4.integraonline.com/~bbroadside/...neral_Info.html in the cannon section it gives a good list of cartridges and rifles that fire them. raygun has some anti-material rifles listed but none of them have the 18D damage code. my best guess is the 20x72mm Short Oerlikon might have a 18D code, a big heavy 2000grain bullet at about 2000fps. |
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May 28 2004, 11:19 PM
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#23
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Which, as a nod to the movie Robocop, is the exact line Clarence Boddicker said in robocop when he pulled the gun out the first time and demonstrated it for his crew.
And an uber nifty 60 years in the future recoil reduction system. :D
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May 29 2004, 12:25 AM
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#24
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Mostly Harmless Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 937 Joined: 26-February 02 From: 44.662,-63.469 Member No.: 176 |
Well, according to canon, explosive cannon shells, which means 20mm or larger.
Pretty big. Too big for a human to hide on their person. Don't have my SR books with me so I don't know how much it says the PAC weighs (probably optimistic), but probably somewhere between 30 lbs (13kg) and 65 lbs (29kg).
Probably somewhere between 45 inches (1.14m) and 79 inches (2m).
There are several passable examples, though classifying them as an "assault" weapon would not be accepted in modern military vernacular. The closest thing that seems to come to it these days would be what are called "anti-materiel rifles". Here is what I consider to be the closest modern thing to an "assault cannon". Barrett Payload Rifle. Here's another man-portable cannon, though "assaulting" anything with it would be rather difficult to do. It's more like giant sniper rifle. NTW20. Here's another one. Croatian RT-20. And this one. Steyr IWS-2000.
Except for the Barrett Payload Rifle, all of the rifles listed above fire cartridges more powerful (kenetically) than the 20x72mm Short Oerlikon. All include some very interesting means of recoil mitigation, but they are capable of doing so today. The cannon Snow_Fox mentioned from Saving Private Ryan is probably the most powerful of all the things discussed here so far, but it was also deployed as a wheel-mounted, crew-served weapon, almost as a short-range howitzer. A bit of a different role than what you'd expect something called an "assault cannon" to occupy. The Solothurn S18/1000 fired a 20x138mm belted cartridge. As an example, this picture shows the 20x72mm Short Oerlikon mentioned above (second from left), and the 20x138mm Solothurn (seventh from left). The cartridge second from the right belongs to the Carl Gustav M/42 recoilless anti-tank rifle. |
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May 29 2004, 12:27 AM
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#25
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375 |
Ol' Hatch said it in 1st Ed. too.
Just thought I'd date my self here... :P |
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