 Recoil, Did body or strength help against it? |
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 May 31 2004, 02:40 PM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 87 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Helsinki City all the way... Member No.: 877  |
This might sound stupid, but here goes.
Does Body or Strength, if they are high or low enough, help(or hinder) against recoil? Is this just something i assosiate with Cyberpunk or is it stated in some book? |
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May 31 2004, 02:44 PM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 131 Joined: 1-April 02 From: Finland, Iisalmi Member No.: 2,497 |
Strenght helps, with every full six points giving 1 point of recoil compensation. So:
1-5 str: None 6-11 str: -1 RC 12-17 str: -2 RC 18-23 str: -3 RC And so on. |
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May 31 2004, 02:50 PM
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#3
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Target Group: Members Posts: 87 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Helsinki City all the way... Member No.: 877 |
Thanks for the quick answer.
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May 31 2004, 02:53 PM
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#4
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Suomi-thread.
Actually, the numbers go like this: 1-5: None 6-11: 1 RC 12-18: 2 RC 19+: 3 RC CC p. 103, Recoil and Strength |
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May 31 2004, 02:55 PM
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#5
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Target Group: Members Posts: 87 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Helsinki City all the way... Member No.: 877 |
Näin on. :=)
Sorry for typing Finnish.... |
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May 31 2004, 04:11 PM
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#6
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
High body is important if you want to hand carry a heavy weapon, too ;)
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May 31 2004, 04:16 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 407 Joined: 22-March 04 Member No.: 6,183 |
Yep, Body & Strength 8 to carry an LMG... :please:
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May 31 2004, 05:55 PM
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#8
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Hey, that's realistic! What you don't know is that all modern LMGs are set to cast Increase Strength and Increase Body on anyone who picks them up.
~J |
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May 31 2004, 05:56 PM
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#9
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,156 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Fresno, CalFree Member No.: 4,252 |
And you have to have superhuman strength to absorb the kick from a pistol.
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May 31 2004, 06:13 PM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 403 Joined: 27-August 02 From: Scotland Member No.: 3,175 |
Yeah that bit doesn't entirely make sense. But you can just buy a well designed gun with a couple of points of RC in it. That'll take care of the recoil for you.
Helppo juttu! |
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May 31 2004, 06:24 PM
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#11
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Makes a certain amount of sense to me that you need that much strength to remove the inaccuracies associated with recoil. 'Sides, I'd rather have something like this be too harsh than too lenient; fully-compensated autofire is not my idea of a good time.
~J |
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May 31 2004, 06:25 PM
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#12
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Completely agreed. |
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Jun 1 2004, 01:21 AM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 153 Joined: 16-February 04 From: Ohio, USA Member No.: 6,083 |
You might argue that the rules aready account for it but I think in RL skill level has alot more to do with recoil control than shear strenght. A 185 lbs Navy Seal will control the full auto fire from an M-14 a lot better thatn a 285 lbs linebacker will that has never fired a gun. There is a lot more to dealing with and controlling recoil than simply muscle the firearm around.
mcb |
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Jun 1 2004, 01:26 AM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 236 Joined: 14-March 04 From: Cal Poly: SLO Member No.: 6,155 |
But it's so easy to do! :D Heavy Barrel Personalized Grip Gas Vent 4 Underbarrel Weight Type.......................Mounts...FCU...DPV...Costs.......Recoil Comp Light Machine Gun.......U.......1.50...840.....4200 :nuyen: ..........9 Medium Machine Gun...U.......1.50...1115...5,575 :nuyen: .........9 Heavy Machine Gun.....U.......1.50...1415...7,075 :nuyen: .........9 *actually, I'm not sure heavy barrel and weight are compatable. And remember, it's only after the first that mods apply, so only 9 is needed. And while this works, I mean it as a joke, and wouldn't recomend it for characters. 8) |
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Jun 1 2004, 02:07 AM
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#15
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
A few things... skill level does compensate for recoil. That huge linebacker with recoil comp 1 (remember humans can't go above RC 1 without cyberware) vs. the marine with no natural RC have a huge difference in dice used (or the linebacker has to take a penalty for defaulting which is much greater than the 1 RC).
When you come down to well trained soldiers, one with STR 4/skill 6 and one with STR 6/skill 5, the difference might be more noticable. Depending on the TNs, skill and strength may equate or they may not. -1 TN vs. 1-2 dice. Depends on the TNs on whether that's an even or uneven break. On the LMG... you generally fire those from the hip on full auto? |
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Jun 1 2004, 02:45 AM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 173 Joined: 4-March 03 Member No.: 4,196 |
Is there an entry anywhere that explains the effect of extra cyberarms or using an articulated arm to steady a weapon? I couldn't find anything on extra arms, and the entry for the articulated arm only specifies what it does for the weapon mounted on it (3 RC, laser sight, up to a LMG). There's a picture on page 34 of CC of someone firing what I believe is a Panther Assault Cannon, and using three arms to do it. The "extra" arm is most likely an articulated arm. How do the rules describe that situation?
Not in real life, but by canon SR rules that seems to be how it's done, unless the LMG is attached to a gyro-mount of some kind.
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Jun 1 2004, 03:01 AM
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#17
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
Yes... for trolls, orks, and heavily cybered humans. CC p 99. It's relatively clear that other heavy weapons are meant to be fired from a bipod or tripod mount. [edit] On further scouring the BBB, I can't find a specific instance of this mentioned anywhere. There is a mention in the "Hip Bracing System" entry in CC, but it just references p 99. It's only true insofar as CC makes it true, then :) [/edit] For the lady in CC, I can't be sure that's not a gyromount. They tend to have an "arm" which comes out to attach the weapon to, and I can see one being "over" instead of under. That, of course, begs the question of where the backpack portion of the system is... |
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Jun 1 2004, 04:57 AM
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#18
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King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127 |
I wouldn't see why not. As I understand it, heavy barrels are literally that- the actual barrel so it shouldn't have any affect on the mount underneath the gun. |
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Jun 1 2004, 05:05 AM
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#19
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
Well, heavy barrels shouldn't give comp to begin with, but that's another matter entirely.
Moral of this story: ignore this stun damage/knockdown silliness unless you're dealing with something really, really big. |
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Jun 1 2004, 06:14 AM
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#20
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I am not here... Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 80 Joined: 21-May 04 From: Deepest Darkest Wales Member No.: 6,349 |
I don'k know if this is well known but modern light and medium machine guns, arn't all that much bigger than an assault rifle.
Take the Minami as used by British/US troops, fires 5.56 beltfed rounds from an open bolt. An awsome piece of kit that has an integral iron sight, folding stock and is routinely fired from the shoulder. You don't need massive strength to carry or fire it, but it does help. I don't see many troops built like Arnie just well trained instead. |
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Jun 1 2004, 02:07 PM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 153 Joined: 16-February 04 From: Ohio, USA Member No.: 6,083 |
Why not? It is simply adding weight to the rifle. Going from a sporter contoured barrel to a heavy bull barrel on a rifle is going to add a pound or more to the rifle depending on barrel length and outside diameters. The heavier the gun the lower the recoil velocity is going to be and all though it does not change the total recoil energy it does it does lengthen and lower the recoil impulse thus making it more comfortable and easier to control. Same as adding weight in the stock or forearm but you have distributed that weight around the barrel. |
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Jun 1 2004, 02:19 PM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 153 Joined: 16-February 04 From: Ohio, USA Member No.: 6,083 |
Light MG are not much bigger but quite a bit heavier. For example the SAW (Squad Automatic Weapon) fires 5.56 belt feed ammo or from a standard M4 magazine and weight about 16.5 lbs unloaded. Where the M4 fire the same round and only weight 8.8 lbs with a 30 round magazine loaded. I sure there there are other similar examples. Some get the weight to compare the M14 to the M60 both of which fire the 308 Win. The extra weight make the SAW much easier to handle in full auto than then the M4. I believe that the M4 is no longer issue in full auto except to special forces. I believe safe, semi-auto and burst fire is all the standard solder get to chose from on the selector any more. mcb |
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Jun 1 2004, 04:29 PM
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#23
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
Because the purpose of a real heavy barrel is not recoil compensation. Problem is that within SR's mechanics, there aren't problems like accuracy degradation and overheating. Yes, it adds weight, but so does stapling a watermelon to your gun. Doesn't mean it should give you compensation in game. |
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Jun 1 2004, 04:50 PM
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#24
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
That's a problem? More complexity != good.
That's only effective if you're a shaman following the Gallagher totem (I figure it's possible... I mean there's a Toaster shaman, so Gallagher isn't too much more insane). |
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Jun 1 2004, 04:53 PM
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#25
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
as a nod to real life, it would make more sense to use the Body score to determine natural recoil compensation than it does Strength. keeping your weapon on-target has nothing to do with how much you can pick up and carry; you're not pulling the weapon back on target as it jumps from recoil. the best advantage you can naturally have, when firing a gun (besides steady hands) is physical bulk, which helps soak up some of the recoil.
see, when you fire a weapon correctly, you and the weapon basically act as a single unit. you breathe, the gun moves; the gun jerks, you shake. if there's more of you to shake when the gun jerks, the gun won't jerk so much--simple matter of energy and mass. however, people who can lift and carry lots of stuff also generally have big bodies, so Str isn't too bad a stat to use for recoil comp. like i said, though, Body would be better. incidentally, either me or mcb needs a new name. i keep reading his posts and going "wtf, i didn't write that!" my old name would be preferable. |
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