 What I learned tonight |
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 Jun 11 2004, 07:43 PM
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#76
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 280 Joined: 22-October 03 Member No.: 5,757  |
I agree with the last part of Arethusa's post.
But a professional intelligent runner, with a sick fetish could keep his 'dark secret' hidden from his group for quite a long time if they do it well. My character would shoot the bastard that kept sex slaves. Work slaves are so much better. They even do windows. |
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Jun 11 2004, 07:51 PM
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#77
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 973 Joined: 3-October 03 Member No.: 5,677 |
Wageslaves are cheapest and most readily available, though. :P Sorry. Had to make a stupid pun. |
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Jun 11 2004, 09:29 PM
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#78
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 403 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Kill Em All Member No.: 2,018 |
Back to where we were before the mention of the troll...
There is a reason why Cyberzombies where robes and mumble things about eagles and spirits in my Tabletop games... And a reason why combat mages where Hardened military armor with foot anchors built into the suit |
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Jun 12 2004, 05:30 AM
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#79
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
I can't believe the enormous tangent that got created over the stupid troll character and his harem. The guy is just RPing his character. Who cares?
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Jun 12 2004, 08:43 AM
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#80
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 511 Joined: 30-May 03 From: Tulsa, OK Member No.: 4,652 |
but if all the cyberzombies go around acting like the stereotypical shaman and all the shamans and mages go around looking like a security goon from hell, won't the players catch on? :grinbig: Here's what I propose. If the NPCs have a shaman, have the shaman dress as the rest of them. If the shaman needs some 'magical' items like beads or feathers or whatever (same for a mage I suppose) have everyone else in the team carry replicas akin to the shaman/mage. That way, if the PCs aren't preceptive enough, even if the shaman casts and the shamanic mask is there to give them away, they may still end up thinking it was the goon next to the shaman. It's hard to keep track of everyone in a combat situation after all...heh. |
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Jun 12 2004, 02:22 PM
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#81
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
How do you convince the goons that this is a good idea?
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Jun 12 2004, 03:22 PM
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#82
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,028 Joined: 9-November 02 From: The Republic of Vermont Member No.: 3,581 |
Control manipulations.
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Sep 25 2007, 10:48 PM
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#83
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
I went and looked this old thread up for the purpose of a more current discussion. After many years and looking back I have to say I think this post was the best one. |
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Sep 25 2007, 11:39 PM
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#84
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 219 Joined: 26-April 02 From: Emerald City, Oz Member No.: 2,648 |
The first lesson you learn playing 7th Sea is to use your scenery and random props to your advantage, a lesson that carries over very nicely to Shadowrun. Seriously, how many PC's actually seek cover in a gunfight? |
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Sep 25 2007, 11:44 PM
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#85
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 219 Joined: 26-April 02 From: Emerald City, Oz Member No.: 2,648 |
Ouch. You do realise that the Titanium bone lacing upgrades your punch from stun to physical damage, don't you? |
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Sep 26 2007, 12:03 AM
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#86
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 219 Joined: 26-April 02 From: Emerald City, Oz Member No.: 2,648 |
So, how different is this troll from say, the local yak boss who runs a bunraku parlour staffed by girls yanked off the streets and forcibly implanted with the chipjacks and personality chips?
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Sep 26 2007, 01:19 AM
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#87
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
Well, in my experience with SR cover is always strongly emphasized due to the deadliness of the combat system. As a GM I always emphasize cover a lot to new players. |
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Sep 26 2007, 01:26 AM
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#88
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,326 Joined: 15-April 02 Member No.: 2,600 |
In no particular order (and with no accompanying quotes so odds are no one will have any flippin' idea what I'm referring to):
I always seek cover in a gunfight. ------------------------------------------------------- Despite 13 years (off and on) playing Shadowrun, I never played or ran Food Fight. I did use the random crap table in a gunfight one time where a pc and a npc were in a gun battle in a yacht firing autoshotguns and assault rifles through a galley wall. That was kind fun until the boat started sinking (then it got real fun). I think I might have just seen The Adventures of Ford Fairlane. ------------------------------------------------------- Maybe the troll has got some sort of Black Snake Moan thing going on. ------------------------------------------------------- Its always fun jumping in on a 4 page topic. "Hey, Food Fight!" "Hey, Prison Rape!" There's no telling what its going to be about when you get to the end. ------------------------------------------------------- I've always felt that how groups handle certain topics is best left to the group dynamic and to the individual players. Every group is different, every group has a different maturity threshold. There are groups I have played with that I would be comfortable exploring some pretty dark material, some I'd prefer we just kept it to initiative and roll to hits. I don't think there's any subject in the whole of human history that couldn't be included in a game if the players were capable of handling it with maturity and respect. ------------------------------------------------------- I think I could save money buying nuts separately and mixing them at home. ------------------------------------------------------- Gangers with SMG: 5 is a little excessive. One mutant that sleeps with his Ingram I can buy. A whole book club of them is pushing it. ------------------------------------------------------- The moral complexity of Shadowrun (at least, as I have always played it, as compared to say TGTSNBN) is one of the things that keeps me coming back. I grok that, man. I really do. Paradoxically, I find it more challenging-- and therefore vastly more entertaining-- to play moral characters in a complex world. Some of my SR characters have been among the most "good guy" I've played. (And some have been real bastards.) And some of my good guys have done terrible things, and some of my bastards have had their odd moments of heroism. My current character is an ex-con, ex-BTL addict samurai, who when the job came along, really latched onto the idea of saving a kid from organleggers. I even caught some flak from my group for being the sam who didn't shoot anybody because when we hit the chop shop, I went straight for the kid and got her out safely rather than engaging guards in firefights. In character, I said, "We get paid more to save the girl than we do to kill organleggers." But at the same time, sometimes its nice to do the right thing, even if it is kinda on accident. |
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Sep 26 2007, 02:31 PM
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#89
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,095 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Ontari-airee-o Member No.: 1,115 |
actually ... no ... bone lacing gives you the option of doing physical damage instead of stun.... but if you choose physical, the power of the blow is reduced. |
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Sep 26 2007, 04:32 PM
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#90
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,978 Joined: 26-February 02 From: New Jersey, USA Member No.: 500 |
I have a reason why: The Yak boss gets no thrill out of the actual bunraku bit, it can be argued. For him, it's business, the same as selling BTLs or car parts or whatever. The troll ganger is doing it for the (presumably sexual) thrill, or otherwise does it because he likes it. |
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Sep 26 2007, 06:30 PM
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#91
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 179 Joined: 8-June 05 From: Montréal, République du Québec Member No.: 7,433 |
Yep. The team I am running is new, very new (other then myself, the GM, only one has previous Shadowrun experience), but they massacred a mid-level Aztechnology team snooping around (for them); caught them by surprise, in the open. Two dropped before they could even fight back; the other two got some token shots in. In 'fairer' circumstances they could have done a lot of damage to the PCs. ;) But they surprised me in a good way: they played smart, they stayed alive, they reacted like everyone else in my world: they got cover and returned fire. The response team (four Aztechnology goons in a nearby van) forced the runners to retreat. Why? Cover. Everyone had cover. They weren't rolling six or seven or eight dice anymore: more like three or four or five at most, and exchanging lead with Aztechnology CorpSec isn't a good way to keep a low profile vis a vis Lone Star.
That depends on how long the Players want to continue playing their characters. ;) |
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Sep 27 2007, 07:55 AM
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#92
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 219 Joined: 26-April 02 From: Emerald City, Oz Member No.: 2,648 |
Alternately he gets no particular thrill from it, but feels he must present the world with proof of his worth, and in this case that is defined by him as his virility. A real troll needs 20 women to satisfy his mighty lusts... |
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Sep 27 2007, 03:18 PM
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#93
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The back-up plan Group: Retired Admins Posts: 8,423 Joined: 15-January 03 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,910 |
Beyond the sex, rape in all forms is generally about the shifting power dynamic. The troll is effectively powerless against Mr Johnson, the next Mr Johnson, the corporations that back them, et al. Unable to cope with the sensation of being powerless, our troll decides that he needs to place himself in a position of power over others.
The rapist's need to find a place of power, unleash violence, and prove prowess and virility are all underlying causes in the overall damaged psyche. There are literally thousands of articles on this subject from a medical and psychological standpoint. If you don't have access to medical journals or a university library, try googling "Rape Power Dynamic". Obviously not everyone who is screwed by a Johnson (wow, that sounds sick given our side discussion) is going to become a rapist. While the Shadows certainly attract a certain psychological profile, prone to violence and social disobedience, I find that most shadowrunners want to vent their agressions on the individual directly responsible for their position. Perhaps that comes from the players who are not in the actual position, and whom would prefer to kill someone who removed a notch of coolness from their character. |
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Sep 27 2007, 03:19 PM
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#94
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,095 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Ontari-airee-o Member No.: 1,115 |
That was just Brilliant!!! And it sums up the differences in experience and strategy between groups. Sure it's all common sense, but "common sense is not so common". |
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Sep 27 2007, 11:26 PM
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#95
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 219 Joined: 26-April 02 From: Emerald City, Oz Member No.: 2,648 |
In the fourteen or so years I've been running games, the only times most players have sought cover was while setting up an ambush, or while fleeing security. When a firefight starts its like a scene from a spaghetti western, the opponents hide where they can and take potshots at the 'heroes', while the heroes stand there in the open, gun(s) in hand, systematically wiping them out. It's surreal how effective it is. Even the fabled Shadowrun lethality barely fazes them. I think next game I'll have to deny them magical healing... |
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Sep 28 2007, 12:15 AM
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#96
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 179 Joined: 8-June 05 From: Montréal, République du Québec Member No.: 7,433 |
And if you/r players are happy with it: fine. Cool. Great. I started a fairly low-BP game; and I don't toss longarms or explosive ammo or magical healing like candy, either (not that it's impossible or even painful to acquire, no, but it doesn't lay around either), but I guess that's a different topic. Obviously neither my NPCs nor my players are going to run 20 meters just to hide behind a car or some other, better, cover: but I'd like to see how your group would last with me as a GM. ;) -2/-4 dice for cover, -1 for shooting from cover (oh, right, your group doesn't use cover), recoil, rain/night/fog/etc... of course, maybe you're running a high(er)-powered game where everyone has twelve dice to shoot. ;) (And if you are, and if you/r players are happy with it: fine. Cool. Great.) |
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Sep 28 2007, 12:20 AM
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#97
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
..yeah reminds me kind of two certain space operas we all "love" where the heroes run around in normal clothing & rarely get suffer a flesh wound. Meanwhile the supposedly heavily armoured "superior" storm troopers and Cylons couldn't seem to hit the broad side of a barn but easily went down with a single shot. |
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Sep 28 2007, 02:43 AM
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#98
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 718 Joined: 10-September 05 From: Montevideo, in the elusive shadows of Latin America Member No.: 7,727 |
funny... The way I Gm, everybody has quickly learned to seek cover straight away when a firefight starts. And I am Gming SR4, with an ork sammy who rolls 22 dice resisting damage. Last session he took two shotgun shells in the chest and only got a stun wound. (the goon was shooting from behind cover and only got 1 net hit)
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Sep 28 2007, 03:53 AM
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#99
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...OK this was a couple nights ago, but what I discovered, was having a well designed and described sculpted matrix can really mess with the team's decker's head. :vegm:
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Sep 28 2007, 04:33 AM
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#100
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 179 Joined: 8-June 05 From: Montréal, République du Québec Member No.: 7,433 |
Care to share? I'd sincerely love to adapt some of that to my descriptions. ;) |
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