Confusion Power, The most irritating power of them all Options

[Ezra]

Right, so I now have a shaman in my party, and he insists on using multiple spirits, to basically confuse anything I throw at them.

(He's not stacking confusions or anything, he is just forever running around with 5 Force 5 spirits just waiting to confuse anything awakened, or anything he attacks, or anything he just plain doesn't like.)

How do you guys combat this? At the moment, I am letting them bump into mages capable of zapping off a Manabolt that takes the spirit down, but is there any other way?

Is there some rule I am missing here? I mean, it gets really rather annoying when the main Bad Guy I have running at the players suddenly gets a +5 to all his actions, without the benefit of a resistance check or something.

So, am I missing the boat completely here, or is this possibly the most horrible power in the game?

[Nikoli]

Isn't there a limit to the number of spirits one can have at any given time?

Don't any actions taken by a spirit under control of a shaman leave that shaman's astral signature all over the target?

[Garland]

Um, 1 spirit per domain, right? Start enforcing those domains.

[Nikoli]

Also, msot won't cross domains. And you can only have like what, 1 great form at any one time?

[The White Dwarf]

Ok Im going to assume that youve already been over the obvious crap like the charisma number of spirits and only 1 per domain etc etc. Which basically means hes using 5 force 5 great forms; or summoning 1, having it confuse, forfieting services to make another to also confuse, etc.

In either case, he can obviously conjure with ease on the spot multiple times. Using wards etc to block the spirits will not solve the issue.

Instead youll need to stop the ability to conjure at will without consequence. Orchestrate your runs to take place in areas with background count, such as a building that was just refurbished from a fire disaster (makes a good excuse to hit it since security will be lower while construction goes on, but also a good excuse to have background count, etc). This will make the task harder, and cause more drain, making them think before acting. Also, consider having the enemies use a grenade (even a stun one is ok) or gas chemical weapon or other ae effect. The goal here is to hit the sham without really specifical targeting him (which is kinda lame) to tag a small wound, raising his tns 1 or 2.

If hes forfiting services youll have to add background count since it affects the drain test, otherwise wound modifers will help. Failing that an enemy shaman with banishing and spiritblast is about all you can do. Confusion isnt exactly the most balanced ability =/

[Smiley]

I feel your pain. Having an PC with regiments of spirits is a major pain in the dick.

[Wraithkin]

Just be happy they aren't using compulsion. Nothing like having one of your bad guys shoot another bad guy, and you not have any say about it. I recently went through this as a player, and I was lucky the dice hated me. Otherwise, we would have had at least one dead member of the team on our hands.

Blood magic = Scary

[Wounded Ronin]

The most fun is a hermetic mage who walks around with like 6 rating 6 elementals in his back pocket.

[Nemo]

There is a spell called Spirit Wall who blocks all spirits and their powers, have an enemy mage with this spell

[Abstruse]

If he's using the summon - confusion - discard - summon - confustion - discard etc. trick, then you can have the spirits themselves get ticked at him/her. Remember, unlike Elementals, Spirits are (for the most part) intellent creatures who can converse and feel. And wouldn't you get ticked off if your work called every couple of hours, asked you to do one simple thing, then send you home, then find out they're doing the same thing to all your friends over and over and over and over again? Next time he/she summons a spirit, have it go on a tirade about how it was busy making cookies or something and this is the 9th time he's been called this week and so on.

The Abstruse One

[Crusher Bob]

Elementals are mostly self limiting because of the cost required to conjure them, not to mention the 6 meter circle you need... You can double check the exact summong times, it may take a spirit until the beginging of next turn to arrive, or something like that, plenty of bullets can fly in that time. Also, the act of summoning probably leaves an astral signature...

[tisoz]

[Abstruse]

Spirits are commanded by the PC, but they're CONTROLLED by the PC. And you can't buy contacts after chargen. Therefore, if the GM doesn't want the PC having spirit contacts, he doesn't have any. Also, they wouldn't "come help without being summoned", they're minding their own business on their own metaplane.

The Abstruse One

[Kagetenshi]

A properly chargen-equipped Hermetic with a good Face on the team can expect to have elementals aplenty on call. All it really takes is some extra negotiation for costs of materials.

~J

[tisoz]

[Arethusa]

No, he's saying no one can buy contacts after char gen. If you want contacts once the game starts, you do it like we normal people do and talk to people.

Anyway, simple fix for confusion is to either make it non cumulative or add a resistance check. Not that that fixes the larger issue of dragging around a mess of spirits or elementals.

[Abstruse]

Yeah, and you try to "use my reasoning against me" when my reasoning's based on information in the books while yours is pulled out of your ass, and when my reasoning is used to counteract a one-trick-pony PC who keeps doing the same exact thing over and over and over again just so he can "win the game" instead of role playing. My solution wasn't based on number or figures or nerfing the power or enforcing some archaic optional rule that only appears in one adventure book printed ten years ago, it's an in-character, in-game attempt to solve a probem of a PC doing something a character in the game universe would've gotten smacked for that's supported by evidence in several sourcebooks as well as the core rulebook.

The Abstruse One

[Cain]

Umm.. :noflame:

Guys? He said that the shaman is "always running around with 5 spirits". That either means they're all great form, or Ezra isn't aware of the Domain limitation. If they're all great form, Ezra's SOL, and needs to start enforcing the Invoking rules a bit more-- the drain should keep the guy in check. Also, setting it so that combat encounters happen right after dusk or dawn will slow down the character a lot.

If they're low-force great forms, then the power is much easier to resist. If they're higher-force great forms, the drain should be problematic.

[tisoz]

[shadd4d]

Great forms can cross domain lines. You can therefore have a stock of them equal to your charisma. That's in the rules.

I'm not sure if removing yourself from a domain constitutes giving up the services of the spirit for Great forms. I'm basing this off of something I've seen in a published adventure, when an extraction target is secretly a shaman and has 3 great forms from Sky, hearth, and city on tap to save her when the runners hand her over to the Johnson.

Bonus point if you can tell me which adventure I'm talking about.

Don

[tisoz]

[shadd4d]

The way I've run it is, great forms extend their domain; you can't leave it. So you can't have multiples of the same spirit but you can have multiple, if differing, spirits. Makes invoking one heck of a technique for shamans. This decision is also supported by the aforementioned adventure.

Don

[durthang]

Another thing you may want to consider is how much attention is this shame attracting with 5 great form spirits following him around? Perhaps he catches the attention of some individual or group that the team would prefer didn't know they existed.

I'm not very familiar with the summoning and spirit rules in SR, but it's my understanding that a shaman looses their spirits at sunrise/sunset. To maintain five spirits, this shaman is going to have to be doing alot of summoning. With all of that spirit activity, the character could very easily draw the attention of a more malevolent spirit.

I think either of those ideas could easily be turned into adventure quality plots, and convince the player that keeping so many greatforms around all the time is not the best idea.

[Berzerker]

Tutor should come visit him with some helpful tips :).

[Arethusa]