Wreck/Ram Damage Options

[Xienwolf]

EDIT: Added in numbers to the questions after writing it all up since there are a LOT of questions involved.

Ok, I can't seem to resolve this in my head clearly with the books, so I found this site, and it still isn't mentioned much in search :(


Wreck and Ram spells. They target by the ORT, and since they are combat spells you double the ORT for the object you are attacking. So with a Force 6 Wreck I could smack a hole into an ORT of 3 (pretty wimpy items) or just beat up something with ORT up to 6 I assume.


Now,
1.1)what use is the damage level of the spell?
1.2)Should you always sling a light?
1.3)Is there a definate advantage to a Deadly? In the Manipulation spells it talks about having them use secondary effects against the ORT and states that at Serious you are at a +2 and Moderate is a +4 to the target's ORT, with Light having no secondary effect. So would you run it the same for Wreck/Ram then, Deadly is even at the doubled ORT and Serious/Moderate are +2 and +4?
1.4)If so should light let you go with a +6 since there is no other effect to the spell?


Also,
2.1)what would the ORT of a gun be? If I had Wreck: Firearms Force 6, and I cast it at your gun,
2.2)what checks would we be facing then? I would cast the spell against your gun's ORT of ____, then resist my drain.
2.3)Now do you have to check against having the gun knocked out of your hand? If so, against what TNs/Conditions?
2.4)If the ORT of the gun is high enough that I cannot blow a 1 meter hole in it, then what does it mean to decrease the ORT of it by 1? Does the gun get mangled and have a chance to misfire?
2.5)Well, then at what point does the gun take so much damage that it cannot be fired anymore?

3) And on the knockback side of things, what if I had Wreck: Armor. Could I cast it on your armor only to make a hole, or can I also use it to knock you on your behind?


4) And final question I suppose: How specific should you properly get with wreck in these 2 cases? Is Firearm and armor good enough, or should it be Pistols, SMGs, Heavy Gunnery categories, and also light, medium and military grade on armor?

[Cain]

1.1. If an object takes Deadly damage, it's completely destroyed. Everything else is in the province of the GM. Also, most secondary effects are determined by Damage level.
1.2. Hell no. Always go for Serious or Deadly. (See 3)
1.3. Most definitely. Inanimate nonmagical objects don't get a resistance test, so one success at Deadly will destroy anything. With the high OR, it's harder to get successes, but you only need one. If you throw at Light, you'd need a bundle of successes to destroy the object, which isn't likely.

2.1. 8-10, depending.
2.2. I don't understand the question.
2.3. Technically, no; Combat spells don't do kinetic damage.
2.4. Combat spells don't knock holes in things, they're all or nothing. A GM could apply different penalties depending on the damage/situation.
2.5. Deadly equivalent. Anything else is at the GM's discretion, although I personally would apply wound-equivalent penalties.

3. No knockback.

4. Firearms and armor is OK.

[RedmondLarry]

Xienwolf,
You're mixing rules that are used against barriers (like walls and doors) with rules for things that are operational.

For example, the result of a "1 meter hole" is for a barrier, and against Barriers the Force Rating matters but not the Damage Code. Yes, against barriers a light-damage spell has the same affect as a Deadly-damage spell, unless your GM makes a house rule to provide additional results from the tougher spell.

For things that are functional (like guns, airplanes, vehicles) they become non-functional when they reach Deadly damage, but they might still be intact.

As an example, a Ford Americar that has crashed into a doorway and is stuck there will become non-functional after reaching Deadly Damage, but it is still there as a barrier until the barrier rules indicate you've breached it.

Here is a previous thread about Wreck(Object). See my long description in the 3rd post on that thread.

I disagree with Cain's "1.1" answer. I believe deadly means non-functional, not "completely destroyed". Certainly the barrier rules are clear that destroying a barrier doesn't involve reaching "Deadly" damage. In terms of the game, I believe that barriers have a barrier rating, not a condition monitor. Successful damage to a barrier lowers the barrier rating, possibly making a 1 meter hole in it, and when the barrier rating is reduced to a certain point (zero for security doors, half-original for most everything else) then the barrier is destroyed.

[Cain]

[Raptor1033]

When i imagine a wreck spell being used on a car i imagine massive physical damage being inflicted. say you hit a car with a deadly wreck, i'd imagine it would look like the car suddenly hit a pole or brick wall head on at full speed. the hood and bumper getting caved in and the engine being smashed to inoperable. maybe that's not how it's supposed to be but that's how i imagine it.

[RedmondLarry]

It's quite okay to imagine it that way. A Wreck spell is a Powerbolt with a restricted target and a lower drain code, and the GM is invited to describe the results of a deadly Powerbolt in whatever descriptive way he wishes. Some GMs enjoy being equally descriptive with a Deadly Physical wound to a player character.

[Lantzer]

As an idea, you could always treat damage to a weapon or tool as Stress, if you are throwing lower-damage-level spells around...