 Dragons and True Drakes, ...because I'm too lazy to look it up |
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 Jun 18 2004, 03:23 PM
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#1
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Running Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,408 Joined: 31-January 04 From: Reston VA, USA Member No.: 6,046  |
What are the base magic attributes (before initiation) of Dragons, Great Dragons, and Drakes?
Obviously, Great Dragons are so out of anyone's league that it's sort of a moot point, and DotSW says Bred Drakes are Magic 6 (or 0) (at least if you're PCing them). But what about lesser dragons, and true drakes? True drakes start out with essence 8, but then again so do shifters, who still only get Magic 6. Any thoughts? |
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Jun 19 2004, 02:57 AM
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#2
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,948 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
I'm too lazy, too. I would go with 6.
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Jun 19 2004, 05:35 PM
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#3
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Well, theres no such thing as a new great dragon AFAIK. A Great dragon is a dragon thats been around for many thousand years. The odds of him having an unmodified magic rating are less than zero IMHO.
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Jun 19 2004, 05:49 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 577 Joined: 12-June 04 Member No.: 6,398 |
The stats for all dragons are the "base" stats. Individual ones are always improved over that.
Unfortunately, since they put the rules for initiation in another book entirely, there's no mention of a dragon with initiatory grades or any of the other optional/expanded rules. At least not for the stat blocks in Critters or Shadowrun 3rd Edition. |
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Jun 19 2004, 06:12 PM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 203 Joined: 26-February 02 From: The Golden Orchards Member No.: 2,011 |
According to Dragons, great dragons minimum magic rating is 12.
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Jun 19 2004, 06:24 PM
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#6
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Take it as a given that at least Great Dragons initiate. Rhonabwhy, for example, is a minimum Grade 13 initiate. The stats for initiated Great Dragons have been posted before. By the same token, I've never seen stats for a lesser Dragon who initiated, but I assume it's possible.
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Jun 19 2004, 07:02 PM
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#7
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Illuminate of the New Dawn Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 317 Joined: 9-June 03 From: Seattle 'Plex, UCAS Member No.: 4,700 |
Dot6W says (p. 180) that dragons are almost always initiates, unless they're very young, and that Great Dragons are always at least Grade 10 initiates, except for very young ones (like Masaru, maybe?).
Other than that, it says that dragons with magical skills have Magic equal to their Essence, which doesn't really jive with the initiate grades they are supposed to have. Maybe they change the signatures often and ditch the extra magic point? Or maybe that's their base magic attribute and you should add on the initiate grades on top of that (ugh. that would be REALLY nasty)? Dunno. |
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Jun 19 2004, 07:12 PM
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#8
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Or it's entirely possible that initiate grades just dont work the same way for dragons. It's already established that can do things magically that PC's cannot, and cast magic in a way that is foreign to humans.
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Jun 19 2004, 07:20 PM
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#9
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Illuminate of the New Dawn Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 317 Joined: 9-June 03 From: Seattle 'Plex, UCAS Member No.: 4,700 |
True dat. There certainly are spirits that metahumans can summon that dragons cant. The Magic point increase thing might be one more reason that dragons like Schwatzkopf and Ghostwalker are really interesting in metahuman magic... An interesting thought.
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Jun 19 2004, 08:49 PM
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#10
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Not true, ghostwalker has used every known type of spirit, and several unknown.
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Jun 19 2004, 09:18 PM
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#11
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Ixnay. Ghostwalker has not yet been known to summon any kind of Spirit of Man or Ancestor Spirit.
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Jun 19 2004, 10:09 PM
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#12
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
AAh okay, I could swear what I said was almost verbatim from the description of him molesting Denver, but I've been wrong before.
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Jun 19 2004, 10:17 PM
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#13
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,408 Joined: 31-January 04 From: Reston VA, USA Member No.: 6,046 |
DotSW, bottom of page 180:
and
I'm not sure if 'nature spirits' is just a general reference to shamanic-type spirits (and would therefore include spirits of man) or not. |
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Jun 19 2004, 11:38 PM
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#14
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,451 Joined: 21-April 03 From: Austin, TX Member No.: 4,488 |
Spirits of Man are Nature Spirits, but Ghostwalker probably just has been unable to summon them yet. He's trying to learn how though. The thing that was odd for Ghostwalker (and most dragons) was that he summoned both nature spirits and elementals, something humans just can't do except to a very limited degree (Tir Paths and other specific magic traditions...other than those, it's Shamans = Spirits, Mages = Elementals and never the two shall meet.)
The Abstruse One |
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Jun 20 2004, 12:00 AM
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#15
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Illuminate of the New Dawn Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 317 Joined: 9-June 03 From: Seattle 'Plex, UCAS Member No.: 4,700 |
GW has summoned Spirits of Man, I think. Hasn't he? Isn't the Spirit of Denver sort of a free Spirit of Man (City Spirit)? While he hasn't put it back together or anything, he's certainly been adept at messing with parts of it (also Sprits of Man, I suppose).
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Jun 20 2004, 12:13 AM
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#16
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Not Cameron Diaz Group: Retired Admins Posts: 472 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Newark, Delaware Member No.: 188 |
You don't have to be able to conjure a spirit to be able to control it or banish it.
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Jun 20 2004, 12:34 AM
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#17
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Illuminate of the New Dawn Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 317 Joined: 9-June 03 From: Seattle 'Plex, UCAS Member No.: 4,700 |
Well, not to banish it. But you have to be able to summon it to control it. |
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Jun 20 2004, 01:45 AM
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#18
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 16-August 03 From: Northampton Member No.: 5,499 |
Ghostwalker, if i remember correctly, was VERY interested in Ancester Spirits and the Loa because Despite his ability and astral quest, he had never heard of them let alone summoned them.
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Jun 20 2004, 03:11 AM
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#19
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Free Spirit Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,948 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Bloomington, IN UCAS Member No.: 1,920 |
According to p.189 SR3, you need to be a shaman to control a nature spirit or a mage to control an elemental. |
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