The Day job Flaw, Or is it.... Options

[Shockwave_IIc]

I remember a thread an age ago where this was half dicussed, and basically if i recall correctly (and i might not) more then a few people myself included, thought that it wasn't actually a flaw, and in some instances qualified as a merit.

Well hows about a reworking of said "flaw"??

Merit, Day job worth 1-4 points.
Whether it be working at the local stuff shack (yeah live that one down :D) or bodyguarding for your local fixer you have to spend a certain amount of time each week "working" for this offcause you receive a certain amount of income (depending on how many fries you serve..)

1 pt, 10 hrs per week serving "fries". and :nuyen: 1000
2 pt, 20 hrs per week and :nuyen: 2500
3 pt, 40 hrs per week and :nuyen: 5000
For the above Jobs consider your hours "set" ie mon-fri 9-5 or what you and your Gm can agree on. If your hours are complete flexable ie you have to do 20 per week programming can you can choose when that is +1 to the value of the merit.

If your wanting a flaw to represent time you need to spend doing other things that don't pay anything i suggest you look at the "Dependents" flaw.

Comments on a post card and all that...

[Jason Farlander]

First: I *hope* those are supposed to be salaries per month, rather than per week...

Second: I agree that getting paid in your offtime shouldnt constitute a flaw, however, there is still a flaw to be found in this:

Crappy (Drekky?) Day Job (-1 to -4)

You work an exhausting, thankless job for little money, but at least noone cares enough about you to inquire about your social life.

-1: 20 hours (2 days) a week, 500 nuyen/month +1 TN penalties to all activities that take place after a day of work.
-2: 40 hours (4 days) a week, 1000 nuyen/month +1 TN penalties to all activities that take place after a day of work
-3: 60 hours (6 days) a week, 2500 nuyen/month +1 TN penalties to all activities that take place after a day of work

Add an additional -1 for a +1 to TN penalties

[Misfit Toy]

It's a flaw because it cuts into the time you can do things like code your own utilities, build your own decks, or enchant a focus. For many characters, that's not much of a problem. But for tech-heads and enchanters, it can get tedious pretty quickly.

[Phaeton]

[Necro Tech]

If day job isn't a flaw then your shadowrunners have a lot of free time. Many people in my group have taken the flaw at various time at various levels and its always a hinderance. I never get to plan when a johnson calls. Sure, many jobs have several days lead time or can only be accomplished at night but many don't. I've taken jobs that start at the end of the meet and finish 12 hours later. Nothing is more irratating that having your Samurai go "Sorry guys, I can't shadowrun on tuesdays and thursdays."
Ask yourself, could you shadowrun and maintain your present job?

[Siege]

It's a difficult flaw because it requires more creativity and effort on the GM's part because the effects are not clearly defined and outlined.

Which is not a dig against GMs, but compare it to "poor eyesight, +1 penalty for visual perception checks".

A creative player could turn a day job into more of a merit than a flaw as many GMs and players have pointed out. I had one character that had an illegal "day" job which gave him free reign, but he only got paid if he actually worked, which meant I had to allocate time but it also gave me free flaw points to balance edges.

In retrospect, a good roleplayer could approach a GM and say, "I want to do this during my spare time and we'll use this table to figure out how much money I make."

However, also ramifications of a day job: +1 penalty when dealing with punks, "Dude, you work where?" or even "Dude, you work?"

And people opposed to your employer or allied with his enemies may find you a convenient target of reprisals.

-Siege

[Snow_Fox]

It'sa flaw because it takes you out of the loop. I had a hcaracter who had a day job, we agreed she'd be a techer. The problem was meets had to be scheduled after school, she couldn't stay out all night on school nights, because hse'd be too tired at school the next day.

[Modesitt]

That merit's rather useless.

Enchanting, Computer(Programming), and the B/R skills in general are very useful for one reason beyond just being inherently useful for the obvious tasks. They pretty much let you set your baseline for how little you're willing to do runs for, an invaluable ability if you're nervous about your GM shortchanging you on runs. You just have to ask yourself, "Could I make more money doing XYZ compared to what I'll make doing this run?". If the answer is yes, you ask for more money and if you don't get it you blow the job off.

You'll usually need an associated Knowledge skill too, but almost everyone has more knowledge skills than they know what to do with. It's ALWAYS nice when a knowledge skill is actually directly useful, such as the Chemistry rules in M&M. Imagine if instead of spending 3 points on a fruity merit that gets you 5,000 nuyen per month, you spent them on the merit Connected at 3 and chose Computer Programs as the thing your friend would always buy. A larger effective karma investment, 3 skill points worth to be precise, into Computer(Programming) will be an assumption I vaguely use.

What you'll need to be a crappy programmer:
-A machine with lots of memory. You'll need a bare minimum of 180 really. Let's splurge and opt for a Desktop with 720 megapulses. Not much room for porn, to be sure, but it'll do. This would put you back a pretty penny - 14,400 - But consider that to be your initial investment.

-Some time.

Let's say you sat down and said to yourself, "I'll program <Blank> all day!" and hey, you've got the skills to back that up. Well, not really but you've got a knowledge skill. As you have a machine with some memory, you can mostly count on the -2 TN mod for double the neccessary memory for now.

Maybe you decide to code a rating 4 Agent. That's the best you can do. Such a thing would have a design size of 160. If you get just one success(Unlucky much?), you would be making 100 nuyen per day so long as you sold just one copy to your friend. Two successes, 200 nuyen. Three succeses, 300 nuyen. Four, 400 nuyen for every day you spend programming. If you got just two successes, you would be making more you would with the 3-point day job 'merit'. Your computer would be paid for once you finished your Agent.

If I was playing under a GM that considered Day Job to be a merit and someone actually took it, I would absolutely expect them to be playing a cyclops that is an otaku and a ghoul.

[Kagetenshi]

For a Rigger, a day job is annoying. For a Decker, it's a significant inconvenience. For a Mage, it can be crippling.

~J

[Abstruse]

Not even taking into account down-time stuff, what are you going to tell your manager at the McHugh's or the boss of the seedy club you work as a bouncer at (who has yak ties) "Hey, can I have the next three weeks off? Oh, Mr. J told me I can't tell anyone where-- err, I mean I have dyptheria. Yeah."

The Abstruse One

[Raife]

It has never helped a group of mine. I have become a master at making the day job a pain in the ass... especially when healing wounds. Remember, a character only has so much sick time to use.

[Madda_Gaska]

[BGMFH]

Four words that will make this a real flaw :evil:

Mandatory Sudden Unexpected Overtime

[toturi]

[Arethusa]

Letter of Immediate Resignation is followed by Immediate Docking of Karma unless you go get a new job.

[Abstruse]

Oh no, let ONE player in my group try that trick and see what happens. Homey don't play dat. How about Hunted flaw at double the value of the day job flaw? Renraku wants their programmer back, the yakuza thinks the former bouncer knows too much about the backroom operations, etc. And that's just my immediate idea...I tend to get nastier the more I brood over a situation :vegm:

The Abstruse One

[Siege]

That was my next question: what penalties would you assign to a character who ditches his "day job?"

Bad Rep?
Hunted?

-Siege

[toturi]

What for? I mean there is no in-game reason for karma reduction or giving a Bad Rep/Hunted to a school teacher or some kid who flips burgers.

[Siege]

Bad Rep: Poor attendance record or Job Abandonment.

Fired for Negligence, etc.

These are all "bad reps" that follow a character around, provided they try to use the same SIN.

-Siege

Edit:
Karma reduction was a suggested penalty for players who shirk or disregard their selected flaws. Another was reassigning the flaw points to related flaws garnered by their failure to abide by the original flaw.

Edited: To add the edit tags.

[toturi]

[Arethusa]

[Siege]

Heh, logic is a dangerous criteria to attach to any game aspect. :grinbig:

However, it doesn't have to follow him into the Shadows, but it will complicate any legal aspect of his life. When you fill out an application for a job now, they will invariably ask if you've been fired and why.

In 2060 with SINs, that information will be pretty easily accessible, whereas now it requires some effort on the part of the employer to check.

If your player decides to chuck his normal life and drop into the Shadows full time, you're right - odds are this kind of "bad rep" wouldn't follow him.

[ Spoiler ]

Allow me to pull a Doc Funk - the "Bad Rep" flaw makes no distinction regarding who it influences. By published canon, it applies unilaterally and to all situations, even to people who would, logically, have no reason to be aware of the rep or even care. "Dude, you're a horrible decker? Gnarly...want fries with that?"

A decker with the flaw "Bad Rep: Horrible Decker" is gonna find Stuffer Shack employees giving him the cold shoulder for no apparent reason. :grinbig:

That being said, I agree completely - please, please modify the rules as appropriate and necessary to make some form of rational sense. I make this plea and disclaimer for those of you who missed the </sarcasm> tags earlier. :grinbig:

However, the GM still has the perrogative to dock karma or reassign lost flaw points as he sees fit as a means of maintaining game balance and not simply handing out free build points. It's the same reason why the "blind" flaw doesn't allow characters to take cybernetic implants to bypass the flaw, making it a freebie.

-Siege

[toturi]

You are indeed correct in saying that a Bad Rep applies to any social situation according to Canon. But it is still only a game balance issue, once the game starts, it makes no sense to dock karma for quitting your job. Just as it makes no sense to trade in his Bonus Attribute for more karma!

If you want to penalise a player for losing a Flaw, you must give something back for losing an Edge too.

[Abstruse]

I've never had a character lose an edge before. However, I REALLY dislike the trend of people trying to "get around" flaws to get free build points. Get a day job and quit the first time it's inconvient, get systive system when you're a magicially-active character and no plans of getting any cyber (guess who's most likely to lose an arm?) I'm not saying be a bastard when it comes to players choosing flaws, I'm talking about people obviously trying to take advantage of the system to get around their flaws. People who take the flaw where the character dies in 3d6 months, then using the genetic treatments in SOTA 2063 to "remove any physical flaw". That's trying to be cheesy and get free points.

Also, a lot of GMs have a tendency to not make flaws a problem for characters. I have two characters who took "computer illiterate" for extra points. Boy are they regretting that now when they have to make rolls to use an autocab or make a call on a payphone...

The point is if you're going to take a flaw for your character, don't be surprised when you have to deal with the problems that flaw causes. You want to use your edges, have fun. You want to get around your flaws, you're not going to get away with it. At least not in my games.

The Abstruse One

[toturi]