City of Sin - Dumpshock Forums

City of Sin, What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas

hunter5150 View Member Profile	Jun 29 2004, 02:48 AM Post #1
Target Group: Members Posts: 49 Joined: 24-February 03 Member No.: 4,152	Hello friends and countrymen. I have posed this question to my gaming group, my local gamestore manager and a few homeless street urchins I found. None could give me a definative answer so I pose the question to the resident experts here. Las Vegas is one of the largest cities with some of the highest crime, largest corporations (casinos), and tightest security (also in the casinos) in the U.S. All of this would play extremely well into the SR universe. Especially considering it is right smack dab in the middle of NAN territory. (Native Americans and casinos what a perfect match) However I have found precious little as far as source material on this city. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

FlakJacket View Member Profile	Jun 29 2004, 02:55 AM Post #2
King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127	Your best bet would be Shadows of North America. What little information there is is in the Ute chapter.

Prospero View Member Profile	Jun 29 2004, 03:56 AM Post #3
Illuminate of the New Dawn Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 317 Joined: 9-June 03 From: Seattle 'Plex, UCAS Member No.: 4,700	There's also a short update to the SoNA info in the Sprawl Survival Guide, in the hotspots section. It gives a few hints as to what's going on in Vegas since 2062 when SoNA is set.

BitBasher View Member Profile	Jun 29 2004, 04:01 AM Post #4
Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220	Las Vegas does not have one of the highest urban crime rates. Above average, yes, one of the highest, not really. In SR Las Vegas is a lousy place to SR. Not many corporate compounds, and pretty much everyone is an indian. People that aren't indians stick out, and all the indians are allowed to openly carry weapons, making your life very, very difficult. Old Native American Nations books followed this.

Abstruse View Member Profile	Jun 29 2004, 10:31 AM Post #5
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,451 Joined: 21-April 03 From: Austin, TX Member No.: 4,488	Your best bet for a run in Vegas is an extraction or assassination of a tourist there or trying to scam the casino. The latter is almost impossible. I think this came up on another thread, but casinos in Vegas would have the following security most likely: - Cyberscanners on all entrances with security ready to restrain damn near anything, even legal implants like datajacks, chipjacks, and math SPUs (which could be used to provide an advantage over the house at certain games). - Spirits of all sorts patrolling non-stop, ready to pounce into action at the slightest hint of magical activity. Even a quick peek into the astral could ruin a poker game as you could tell the stress of another player, thus telling that they're bluffing. - Security guards openly sitting around the like of which you'd only see in an Corp Zero Zone. The Abstruse One

lspahn72 View Member Profile	Jun 29 2004, 05:55 PM Post #6
Target Group: Members Posts: 88 Joined: 13-January 04 Member No.: 5,975	My group is currently "hiding" in vegas. Two are Indian so that helps, and they have a few contacts. Ive tried to play up the organized crime element as well as the "you are too white for me" element of teh NAN. It has reduced the amount of firepower we take to micky ds now...

Black Isis View Member Profile	Jun 29 2004, 06:19 PM Post #7
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 223 Joined: 24-February 03 From: The Containment Zone Member No.: 4,151	"I have a question, say we get into the cage, and through the security doors there and down the elevator we can't move, and passed the guards with the guns, and into the vault we can't open..." "Without being seen by the cameras." "Oh yeah, sorry, I forgot to mention that." "...yeah, well say we do all that... uh... were just supposed to walk out of there with $150,000,000 in cash on us, without getting stopped?" "Yeah." "Oh, ok." See how simple it is? :)

CirclMastr View Member Profile	Jun 29 2004, 06:55 PM Post #8
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 156 Joined: 3-July 02 Member No.: 2,929	If nothing else, a quick trip to vegas to pick up a slave from the Mafia dealers can be interesting.

LaughingTiger

Jun 29 2004, 08:14 PM

Post #9

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QUOTE (Abstruse)

- Security guards openly sitting around the like of which you'd only see in an Corp Zero Zone.

Openly armed and heavily armed guards are bad for business at casinos. You want people to feel welcomed, valued. You don't get that effect by having guns visible everywhere someone turns.

The nice, strong men in the well tailored suits that are so happy to get you the help you need are all the security most people see. The guys with the big guns are hidden in the passages throughout the walls of the casino and at special choke points. Try to run, and the open concourse is suddenly filled with people who would like to have a talk with you.

Planning a hit in Vegas could be a hoot, very "James Bond". Or what about having negotiating over a high stakes poker game? Or trying to win back an imporant item?

Thanks guys, I think you just gave me an idea.

Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*

Jun 29 2004, 08:43 PM

Post #10

Guests

QUOTE (Abstruse @ Jun 29 2004, 03:31 AM)

- Security guards openly sitting around the like of which you'd only see in an Corp Zero Zone.

I seriously doubt that, for the same reason they don't do it now--It kills the spirit of fun to be surrounded by a bunch of angry, heavily-armed security guards when you're trying to be naughty. [EDIT]The rest of the post just echoed LT's[/EDIT]

QUOTE (BitBasher)

In SR Las Vegas is a lousy place to SR. Not many corporate compounds (CD2: my emphasis), and pretty much everyone is an indian. People that aren't indians stick out, and all the indians are allowed to openly carry weapons, making your life very, very difficult. Old Native American Nations books followed this.

So... what are the casinos from a SR's POV then?

And SoNA seems to have treated Vegas differently than NAN 1 did. One of the interesting things is the sheer population dynamic in the city now versus 1990ish, esp. with the higher number of Hispanics (in a city and state whose names are Spaniohs, who'd have thought?). They focused too much on the Strip in SoNA, but there are other things to do out there, especially since it's essentially a giant Anglo Reservation in Ute and still a huge attraction spot.

PBTHHHHT View Member Profile	Jun 29 2004, 08:52 PM Post #11
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,174 Joined: 13-May 04 From: UCAS Member No.: 6,327	Oh, speaking of Ocean's 11 (well, from the above quotes! :P ) Looks like they're filming a part of the scene for the movie Ocean's 12 in the Ronald Reagan Building in DC during August, they want to use the lobby for a scene. Just heard this through the grapevine. As for Las Vegas, I imagine security will be similar to what they have now but with the backups carrying even bigger guns out of sight. More riggers and astral security too. I can see some shamans working for the casinos... know of any totems that would enjoy the casino environment? Heck, even free spirits might be roaming around with all the emotions there.... Oh, can you imagine some of the hotel rooms being haunted/background count due to past events? Don't forget that there's always a few bodies that are 'dumped' in the desert.... Great way to introduce Shedim. 'Hey Nick, weren't ya supposed ta wack 'ol Jimmy?' 'yah, took him out to the desert and put a bullet to the brain.' Takes a swig of his beer. '.... he just sat down at the end of the bar....' 'Splurrrrrtttt!!!!' Spray of liquor all over the bartop.... ;)

Solstice View Member Profile	Jun 30 2004, 12:03 AM Post #12
Moving Target Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 870 Joined: 6-January 04 From: Idaho Member No.: 5,960	No Vegas isn't the best SR setting unless your doing they old sneak and snatch and your target is on vacation.

FlakJacket View Member Profile	Jun 30 2004, 01:24 AM Post #13
King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127	Unless you count that whole underworld war that they've got going on.

hunter5150 View Member Profile	Jun 30 2004, 02:15 AM Post #14
Target Group: Members Posts: 49 Joined: 24-February 03 Member No.: 4,152	Well I must admit that yes Oceans 11 was my inspiration for this run. I wouldnt expect to carren run in Vegas but I thought a one shot, huge take heist of a lifetime would be alot of fun. I figured to make security uber tight. I kind of wanted to see if I could design the ultimate secure system/building and see if my group could crack it. Mind you my group isnt up to that challenge as players but maybe far into the future. Just wondered what kind of sociological kinks I would need to throw in in order to make it vaguely canon.

Snow_Fox View Member Profile	Jun 30 2004, 02:22 AM Post #15
Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,577 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gwynedd Valley PA Member No.: 1,221	At the risk of dating myself, NAN1 covered Vegas. basically it makes too much revenue for the NAN to give up and os it exists as a pink skin enclave. Beyond all the existing sin now they have death sports and pretty much anything erlse you want. I'd say runs could be spying on corp wqorkers, maybe extracting acts for another cassino, sabotaging a cassino-like hit the liquor consigment or get caught up on intergang rivalry. wet work to look like urban violence. Take scandal pics of the latest sim starlet with her secret spouse (Hello Brittney)

Prospero View Member Profile	Jun 30 2004, 03:23 AM Post #16
Illuminate of the New Dawn Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 317 Joined: 9-June 03 From: Seattle 'Plex, UCAS Member No.: 4,700	And like the rest of that area, there's stuff going on out in the desert (at least SSG hinted that there was). So talisleggers and people who want a back-door into the Mojave, Vegas is the place. 8)

Abstruse View Member Profile	Jun 30 2004, 07:36 AM Post #17
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,451 Joined: 21-April 03 From: Austin, TX Member No.: 4,488	There are nicely armed guards visible in casinos now. They're just in front of the cages, at the entrances, etc. Sure, they only have pistols now, but that's in 2004. In 2063, I wouldn't be surprised to see a friggin' AK-toting mofo in every pit. And no one will bat an eye because the guards in the MALL in Shadowrun carry uzis. The Abstruse One

Fygg Nuuton View Member Profile	Jun 30 2004, 09:48 AM Post #18
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 897 Joined: 26-February 02 From: TIME OUT Member No.: 1,989	what happens in vegas stays in vegas... except the horrible case of awakened crabs you got. good luck with that buddy

Domino

Jun 30 2004, 10:37 AM

Post #19

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QUOTE (hunter5150)

I kind of wanted to see if I could design the ultimate secure system/building and see if my group could crack it.

Well if your design is even halfway secure using all the gadgets and techniques available in the various sourcebooks they will fail.

FlakJacket View Member Profile	Jun 30 2004, 03:59 PM Post #20
King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127	The question is though, would Vegas still be as big as it is today? The UCAS seems to have legalised gambling- well Seattle and Detroit have casinons. Down in the CAS New Orleans also has them. Throw in virtual casinos and that could take away a lot of customers. :/

Fygg Nuuton View Member Profile	Jun 30 2004, 04:33 PM Post #21
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 897 Joined: 26-February 02 From: TIME OUT Member No.: 1,989	you can have gambling near water, or on water, somehting like that. detroit has a big honkin lake nearby IIRC, seattle has water too, as does new orleans

BitBasher

Jun 30 2004, 06:08 PM

Post #22

Traumatizing players since 1992

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QUOTE (FlakJacket)

The question is though, would Vegas still be as big as it is today? The UCAS seems to have legalised gambling- well Seattle and Detroit have casinons. Down in the CAS New Orleans also has them. Throw in virtual casinos and that could take away a lot of customers. :/

QUOTE

The question is though, would Vegas still be as big as it is today? The UCAS seems to have legalised gambling- well Seattle and Detroit have casinons. Down in the CAS New Orleans also has them. Throw in virtual casinos and that could take away a lot of customers. :/

All that is generally true today, additionally theres gambling in limited parts of LA, ext... None of that has put a dent in out tourism business at all yet.

LaughingTiger

Jun 30 2004, 07:41 PM

Post #23

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QUOTE (Abstruse)

There are nicely armed guards visible in casinos now. They're just in front of the cages, at the entrances, etc. Sure, they only have pistols now, but that's in 2004. In 2063, I wouldn't be surprised to see a friggin' AK-toting mofo in every pit. And no one will bat an eye because the guards in the MALL in Shadowrun carry uzis.

Pistols mean safety.

Uzis mean terrorists.

Perception, in these cases, is 10/10ths of the law. People may expect the occasional man holding a pistol. Secruity guards have pistols, cops have pistols. But anything larger doesn't belong. SMG's, assault rifles - those tools belong to cops who hurt you, take you to jail. They belong to people who hijack airplanes and kill people.

In these situations, you want people to be comfortable, to be willing to stay awhile. You want these people to feel safe because they *know* they'll be walking out of the casino with the million dollar jackpot and they want someone to keep them safe. Guys holding "assault weapons", as people percieve them, kill that idea of safety. What could possibly be around that would require men to have guns like that? What is so tough you can't stop it with a pistol? And do you really want to be there when it shows up?

Also:

St. Louis has Casinos because we have the Mississippi and Missouri Rivers. Common vernacular for these spots o' sin are "the boats", despite at least one which is a large land based complex, with a hotel, 5 restaurants and 3 main casinos. It's nothing like Vegas, doesn't hold a candle, but it can be just as creepy. Last time I went, there was a lady sitting at a penny machine with a cigarette. I played around, had dinner, came back six hours later...

she was still there. She was there when I left, another hour later. I'm willing to bet she's still there, 8 months later.

Creepy...

Garland View Member Profile	Jun 30 2004, 07:49 PM Post #24
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 527 Joined: 30-January 04 Member No.: 6,043	St. Louis? Friggin' Booneville out in the middle of nowhere has a casino now. There are billboards for it everywhere along the highways, presumably to lure in the RV crowd.

RangerJoe View Member Profile	Jun 30 2004, 07:51 PM Post #25
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 749 Joined: 22-June 02 From: Parts Without Member No.: 2,897	Does anyone else imagine corps setting up exclusive or semi-exclusive partnerships with the major casinos? What better way to control corporate population, even on vacations, than a hotel/casino that served as an enclave-away-from home? If that were the case, I would imagine one would run into many of the same problems running in Vegas that one would running in any other corporate center/enclave.

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