[X] My Assistant

[BitBasher]

First off, as pointed out above unless this is a 500+ karma game so far the GM flubbed in letting him have the spell, as he needed a force 18 lodge and a level 18 spell design skill, which is the killer.

The problem is also that shadowrun combat breaks down at skills that high. With that many dice either you take nothing, or roll bad and get annihilated. It becomes more and more binary assuming you dont cheat at dice rolls. Retire the campaign.

[Curugul]

Thanks for all the great responses, most were very helpful.

I request clarification on one point:

[TinkerGnome]

It depends on who you ask. Most people think high force (> force 8 or so) spells are pretty hard to come by on the open market. Also, once he gets the forumulae he has to learn the spell with the TN 36 test in a lodge of a rating equal to or greater than the spell rating (also a rather impressive feat).

[Apathy]

easy ways to address this:

• damage from crashes ignore armor
• damage from falling ignores armor (I think)
• gas attacks ignore armor
• viral and bacterial attacks ignore armor
• the toxic power sludge engulf ignores armor
• the air elemental power air engulf ignores armor
• narcojets ignore armor
• DMSO rounds ignore armor (I think)
• the knockdown rules ignore armor
• critter/spirit powers like confusion, and fear ignore armor, and aren't effected by sheilding
• a spell this high will attract spirits like crazy
• strain3 fab would love to eat this thing, along with the mage
• astral attacks ignore armor (if you can get him to project or perceive
• astral attacks against the sustaining focus (the physad with astral perception, smashing blow, and distance strike)

[CoalHeart]

[The Jopp]

Why not have some LEGAL action taken against him.

1. Does he have a LICENSE for this spell (All spells above F2 are illegal and require a license)

2. Levitate. Levitate him fifteen floors up, hell, just levitate his left foot ans spin him around and around and around and around REALLY fast. Ooh, I'm getting dizzy.

3. Have an enemy mage mindprobe him for that spell and let them face an opposing team all with F18 armour spells.

4. Wards, wards, wards wards, wards and MORE wards.

5. Have Mr Harvey Orror pay him a visit.

6. Have a water elemental give him an enema. (Yes, due to his silliness he deserves it)

7. Use "Fashion" modified with a LOS to give him a non see through basic clothing or shape him like something out of Versace collection.

8. Drop a Cow on him.

9. Give him Amnesia, he just forgot all his spells and have to relearn them all over again (one dice roll would be enough but it is STILL that little killer with a TN of 36)

10. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: This is too horrible to mention but it includes Britney Spear songs, 50kg of butter, a padded room and the entire collection of encyclopedia britannia from 2000. And the room will be locked with the offending person thrown inside it.

Ah hell, I'll mention it anyway. The PLAYER must sit in that room listening to ALL of Britney Spears albums covered in butter and may only leave once he has memorized the entire collection of books.

THEN the same procedure will be taken with the CHARACTER. This will ensure that the player has learned to ROLEPLAY. :grinbig: :grinbig: :grinbig: :grinbig:

[Cain]

[BitBasher]

[Herald of Verjig...]

I notice many comments about "high karma level games" and other assumptions based on what people associate as being neccessary precursors to a force 18 spell.

So, I will ask:
What's the sorcery skill?
What's the karma pool?
What's the spell design skill?
What's the ettiquette?
What's the initiation grade and the magic rating?

I've seen a roll of 36 on 4 stealth dice. Although it does require an obscene number of dice to be statistically reliable, that doesn't mean it can't happen with less.

[FlakJacket]

[Misfit Toy]

The omnipotent Called Shot rules care nothing for logic. There is no armor it cannot bypass.

[Apathy]

[ShadowGhost]

[Adarael]

Well, it looks like most of my basic responses have been covered, yeah. But there's one that should scare the bejesus outa anyone - essence drain.

Have fun losing magic rating, buddy.

[Jason Farlander]

Yes, generally speaking, "researching" and "buying" are different things. Hence my confusion.

Some questions:

1 What is the troll's etiquette?
2 What is his willpower?
3 What is his sorcery?
4 How does he have a body of 18?
5 How many people in the world do you think have a spell design skill of 18?

This post has been edited by Jason Farlander: Jul 8 2004, 12:22 AM

[Beast of Revolut...]

A force 18 armor spell should be perfectly balanced if you are using all the rules. He should have a wizmungous spell design skill and lodge/library, and there are plenty of ways to circumvent armor, not least of which is chemical weapons. Hoever, don't go all cheap on him by having a whole squad of enemies somehow be armed with squirt guns. At least have an enemy realize he's using an armor spell or is otherwise indestructible before breaking out the gas grenades. Last but not least, there is always high exlosives, vehicle scale weapons, and the chunky salsa effect.

[tisoz]

Due to the upgrading gear rules, A starting character could have a rating 18 lodge for 9000 nuyen in less than three weeks. He only needs to buy 3 rating 6 lodge materials and spend 18 days setting it up. The rules are in SR3, pages 166-167.

[Kagetenshi]

[Cain]

Almost forgot the big one. Net Guns. The large Net rounds will take down your troll, armor or no.

[Apathy]

I'm not sure if anyone's brought this up, but he's also got to be able to cast it. Assuming that he's not really a great dragon in disguise, he's going to be taking very high level physical drain every time he turns it on.

And doesn't a sustaining focus have to be at least as high as the spell it holds? Can you say "focus addiction"? He'll lose all his magic in no time flat. If I mis-remembered this, and he's got this mega spell in a dinky little focus, then just destroy the focus going through a ward, or attack it with spirits, or whatever.

[Misfit Toy]

At Grade 3 and assuming no Magic Loss, he'd have to have some other focus on at the same time as the Force 18 sustaining focus in order to worry about Focus Addiction. It only kicks on when you exceed twice your Magic in total Force. It's probably why he "stopped" at Force 18.

Likewise, a Drain Code of 11M Physical, while annoying, isn't really that bad for a munchkin since he's doubtlessly always going to keep it activated (who cares about the blue glow, right?). If he has a Trauma Damper, he really only needs two successes anyway, and while unreliable, it can happen when rolling in excess of 18 dice (remember, he can put a bunch of Sorcery dice into the Drain Resistance part since only one success is required to cast Armor).

[Apathy]

Good point, thanks MT.

My opinion:
If the GM was mistaken about the rules for acquiring and learning high level spells, he should retroactively take the spell and focus back, refunding the charater's money and karma and allowing the PC a chance to spend it on something else.

If the GM wants to let him keep the spell and screw him over anyway, then ram him with a drone or gas him.

If the players are actually at a level where they could legitimately acquire and use spells of this magnitude, then he should consider retiring the characters.

[Sammiel]

[Core Dump]

[shadd4d]