Custom Armor, wierd idea Options

[Fygg Nuuton]

alright, so in order to get military grade armor (and IIRC security grade) it has to be custom fitted. assuming these people use the armor b/r skill to make this armor, is there any way to get the armor customized further? as in bulkier with more armor, or parts integrated, such as a long coat or vest?

if it is made to use such armor in conjunction, would the extra pieces give a +# to armor like pieces of an outfit like in CC or would it still be a seperate armor code, even though it is made to be part of the armor.

ruleswise there is nothing but this armor and that armor etc. i am looking for logic or what you would rule as a GM. gracias

[The White Dwarf]

Frankly Id be more inclined to smack the player bringing this up than actaully tell him anything as the GM. But since youre outta arms reach...

The 'custom fitting' is, from my reading, more akin to how FFBA has to be tailored. Like Full Plate each suit has to be designed to its wearer to make it merely cumbersom instead of impossible to move in. So far as the b/r skill being implicitly assumed Id say no. But, that (in theory) wouldnt rule out someone with the right tools (shop at the minimum, more likley facility for milspec) from using the skill to design a suit.

Assuming you went that route, I would presume you could include whatever devices you want like Boba Fett, a few common ones are already given as options in the mil-spec armor listings. As far as including a vest or coat, the rules say you cant layre anything with Mil-spec armor, as it already includes an undersuit and nothing would fit over it. Even if you had a special coat to fit over it, the armor is so obvious that it would do little but make you look like someone in football pads wearing a bathrobe over top.

So, if the GM first allowed the b/r skill to be used to make this, and then said you could wear something else with it, *THEN* you'd actually have to work out the layreing for it. It wouldnt follow the 'outfit' stacking for sure, its obviously not one. And the odds of you making it to even the stacking point are slim to none, given the above logic.

So to summarize, I doubt you could make the armor stronger, I doubt you could layre it with anything, if you did I doubt it could ever be considered an outfit, and my opinion as a GM would be to smack the player bringing it up.

[Cursedsoul]

Why not just improve existing armor and pack in some gel packs?

Take a couple of armored vests. De-construct one of them and add the plates to the second. Then, add in your gel packs. It'd be heavy as all hell, apt to knock you over, but basically the poor man's ghetto hardened armor.

I don't see why this can't be logically done. Welding torch + armor shop + stitching = presto.

Balance wise this would be a nightmare. Of course you can always be really evil and have them get harassed everytime they try to walk around town with it or have them encounter a guard in melee who teaches them the value of a called shot using armor only in the location where its worn. See how that armor protects them against a stun baton to the nuts.

Monowire's always fun too.

Seriously though, I'd shake my head in disgust and set fire to their character sheet or something.

[Fygg Nuuton]

the point is you dont wear the heavy armor around town, thats why you have the clothing type armor.

after any modification to increase armor, all conceal ratings would be negatives.

also gel packs suck, you cant layer with them

[Cursedsoul]

You can't layer a whole lot of armor, keep that in mind. Besides, the point is to get hardened armor and that is actually possible. Its what? 15000 for an armor shop? It'd be like, 5400 for a gel packed armor jacket and a normal one to dismantle.

20400 is STILL cheaper than the CHEAPEST light hardened combat armor, coming in at 25000. This is without street index thrown in.

With SI there is NO FRIGGIN CONTEST. AJ has SI of 0.75, or 2.75 with the gel packs. You'd pay like, 12400 for the gel pack jacket, 675 for the normal one.

45000 for the shop. around 13000 for the armor. 75000 for the hardened light mil armor.

17000 nuyen difference.

Considering you can actually have the gel packed armor from the start given avail of 8, you'd be the talk of the town and the envy of all your friends.

So you can't layer it. If you get the full armor value of both that's 10 hardened ballistics. That will stop a shotgun. Cold. If you count the additional plating as a layer, that's 7 hardened ballistics which is surprisingly EXACTLY WHAT THE LIGHT HARDENED ARMOR PROVIDES.

Immunity to SMG and most sporting rifles isn't bad.

Sure its not covering you head to toe like the mil spec, but you could do this with a winterized coverall. It'd be 6 hardened ballistics, but you'd be covered head to toe. Hell, you might even be able to dikote that summuvabitch for more protection.

Going with the jacket and dikoted plates (if this is at all possible) you'd have a hardened ballistics of 9 (6 +(1/2x6) = 9). That will stop all small arms save for a shotgun, and a -9 power its not overly threatening.

[Siege]

Fygg - I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to accomplish.

-Siege

[Jason Farlander]

Basically, I think what he is saying is that, given the fact that military /security armor is custom-tailored to fit an individual wearer, it *should* be possible to custom-tailor a suit of military grade or security armor to fit an individual wearing an armored vest with plates, for example, making it possible to layer the two. Alternately, you *should* be able to attach some armored plates to the outside of a suit of military or security armor, with the purpose of increasing its defensive value. However, there are no such rules for these sorts of customizations, so he is wondering if anyone has any houserules or ideas for houserules in that regard.

Is my interpretation of your question correct, Fygg?

[The White Dwarf]

Wait, so youre complaining you cant layre anything with Gel Packs in a post where you ask about layreing things with MilSpec armor. Yea Im done posting to this thread now.

[Fygg Nuuton]

[Jason Farlander]

Something similar came up in one of my games - one of the characters was a sort of Mr Fixit who had a drekload of B/R skills.

Segue: I think its somewhat tragic that the B/R rules arent given the depth necessary to utilize the "B" part, and I think it would make a great supplement (or at least a sizeable portion thereof) to describe how characters can use B/R skills to make things from scratch (to whom it may concern: nudge nudge, wink wink).

Anyway, I decided that the given configurations are the result of a good deal of research and trial/error, and, thus, represent the greatest efficiency of design. You, working in your garage, will not be able to do better than the megas. As such, while you could add plasteel plates to your sec armor, for example, the increase in protection would provide a disproportionate increase in weight and quickness/combat pool penalties.

If you wanted to add some armor plates to your sec armor, you could increase the defensive value of the armor by 1 or 2, sure. But you would calculate penalties as if you had increased the value by 2 or 4, respectively. Something like that should work.

[Cursedsoul]

Not for like, an armor shop. Couldn't you theoretically search, find the components of a factory where armor is made from start to finish, buy them all, put'em all in a really big warehouse and consider it a factory?

Considering that by the 2060's there's something called the Matrix I imagine the size of said facilities is somewhat smaller, a HELL of a lot more automated, and controllable by someone with decent computer skills.

If you can re-direct the traffic in a factory as a decker (possessing a relevant knowledge skill of course) I'm sure a gunsmith could do something similar.

I don't think you can really say you can't under ANY circumstances do better than the megas. Anyone with the right shop and knowledge can do just as good. The main difference is TIME. The single guy with a semi-up to snuff shop is going to take MUCH longer than the SOTA packing megas. Of course if you want to make ONE piece of armor its not going to take nearly as long. A custom job, not a mass produced job.

You know what you want, how you want to accomplish it, and have an idea of how to go about it. Megas, if they want to produce something for the "public" have to devote the time to sweeping the audience of potential users for what they want. Then they have to go through prototypes, test them out, etc, etc.

That's all stuff you don't really have to do as a loner/small group. Hell, if its an illegal shop you don't even need to comply with all the laws so you can skimp on the regulations. A mega can do the same thing of course.

Another problem is raw materials. Maybe it'd be a cool idea to run a group that's comprised only of the crew manning their own weapons/armor/electronics/etc shop. There's still room for all the basics; a decker controlling it, B&E for additional control + maintenance, and a sammy for security purposes.

You catch my drift I hope. They'd go on runs not for money, but for components needed to run their business. I dunno, a spur of the moment idea and one that I'm sure has been done before.