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 Making Otaku useful, ...*outside* of the Matrix. |
 Jul 11 2004, 10:25 PM
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#26
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Immortal Elf  Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670  |
there's also the point that one of the most basic pieces of information you acquire when astrally assensing someone is whether or not they're Awakened. otaku don't register to astral senses as being magically-active.
to address the actual topic, i like playing with the Remote Control complex form and making the otaku into a psuedo-rigger. Intelligence-linked weapon skills are also nice. dumping karma into your Quickness will raise your Combat Pool (Int and Wil should already be way above-average). otaku also stand a better-than-average chance against mages, with their high Wil and Int scores--use that to your tactical advantage. |
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Jul 11 2004, 10:41 PM
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#27
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 577 Joined: 12-June 04 Member No.: 6,398 |
Bah.
Yes they do. But just like everything else about them, they call it something else. In their case, its their MPCP Rating.
I think you mean 90%. And of the 10% that do, they consist of every race, creed, and occupation on the planet. Except otaku. There are no otaku magicians. Just like there are no hermetic shamans, psionic hougans, or path magician wujen. The only people on the planet who don't have the ability to be magicians are magicians.
The similarities between the two are too great. There's far, far, far more similarities than there are dissimilarities. Waddle. Quack. Duck.
Yes they do, just in a different way and usually only when actively using their abilities. Mundanes never alter their aura like that when using the Matrix, but an otaku's comes alive in a disturbing, alien fashion... because they practice a disturbing, alien style of magic even if only subconsciously. |
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Jul 11 2004, 10:50 PM
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#28
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
besides OOC mechanics care to detail the similarities? They share OOC, not IC.
No, I mean 99%. Can you provide a quote for 90%? It's possible I've just never seen it.
Can you provide me a book quote that says that otaku's aura is visibly magically active when they're decking? Can you provide me with a quote that lists what anyone else's aura looks like when they are decking?
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Jul 11 2004, 10:54 PM
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#29
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 577 Joined: 12-June 04 Member No.: 6,398 |
IC they cast spells, summon spirits, are split between hermetics and shamans, and perform wonders that mundanes can't without technological assistance... all by nothing but sheer will alone. They also have a tendency to gather into magical groups and like to initiate to improve their magical powers and gain access to metamagic techniques. Their shamans hear the voice of their totemic god, and their hermetics see their powers from a more analytical aspect.
I've seen you in the threads where it's been discussed countless times. MitS states that 10% of the population is Awakened and that the majority of that 10% are fully awakened with only a small percentage being kooks, aspected, adepts, or those who never realize their potential. If memory serves, its on the bottom of the very first page of the chapter after they describe hougans, wujen, etc.
Nope, I don't have my books handy hence the lack of a page reference above. But feel free to pull the "the books never say you have to use the restroom, so you clearly never have to use the restroom" argument if you like, though. This post has been edited by Misfit Toy: Jul 11 2004, 11:00 PM |
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Jul 11 2004, 11:08 PM
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#30
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 515 Joined: 10-April 04 From: Chicago, IL...Ich vermisse Deutschland. Member No.: 6,230 |
I've looked through the Otaku chapter in Matrix. Neither it nor the old VR 2.0 or VR 2.01D say anything about auras. I'm going on something that either a GM or he himself came up with. Sounds interesting stylistically, but it has no basis in the books.
Don |
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Jul 11 2004, 11:10 PM
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#31
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 577 Joined: 12-June 04 Member No.: 6,398 |
Oh good lord.
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Jul 11 2004, 11:14 PM
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#32
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King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127 |
Um, no it doesn't. Quoting from the section you just cited,
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Jul 11 2004, 11:15 PM
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#33
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 214 Joined: 8-June 03 Member No.: 4,696 |
Inded, the passage in question is there. "First, the Awakened represent the smallest minority of the population. Only 1 percent of people in the Sixth World can use magic. A fraction of that percentage are aspected magicians, never get the proper training, or go crazy trying to deal with their gift." You can argue that Otaku are magical until you're blue in the face, and feel free to run it that way in your games, but it's hardly the foregone conclusion you seem to assume. |
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Jul 11 2004, 11:16 PM
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#34
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 577 Joined: 12-June 04 Member No.: 6,398 |
Okay, I got it backwards in my head. It's when people say that only 1% of the 1% are fully awakened that MitS corrects. My mistake. Sorry.
I do know that otaku have strange auras in the Matrix, though. As soon as I get my books I'll provide a page reference. |
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Jul 11 2004, 11:22 PM
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#35
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 16,898 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
IIRC there's some odd things in the aura of whatever Ronin was called before he became Ronin.
~J |
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Jul 11 2004, 11:31 PM
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#36
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 577 Joined: 12-June 04 Member No.: 6,398 |
I do know it was mentioned in a novel somewhere. And while I still don't have my books available, I did find this on the newsgroup. Take it however you like, but while it isn't canon, the novels (sadly) are, and this blurb is obviously in reference to it because its exactly how I remember it being described. I'm only going to quote the relevant parts.
Author: Tzeentch Subject: Optional Otaku Revisions Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2002 The following is a slightly revised version of the Otaku rules I developed for my The Matrix submission. It was not part of my final submission so I've changed the rules to follow existing SR3/VR2 mechanics as much as possible. Comments are of course welcome. Text in brackets [] denotes text changed from the original manuscript. RESONANCE AURA An otakus aura will radically shift once they enter the Matrix with their Living Persona. Anyone assenssing an otaku as he interfaces will notice that the otaku's aura dims, then seems to sparkle with strange lights. Anyone familiar with otaku will immediately recognize it. The otaku cannot masked or hide this efffect on their aura - even if they are aware of it. |
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Jul 12 2004, 12:00 AM
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#37
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 16,898 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Technobabel, that was the book.
Side note: for a pretty good book, that had the worst cover teaser I can remember seeing. ~J |
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Jul 12 2004, 12:28 AM
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#38
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 517 Joined: 27-August 02 From: Queensland Member No.: 3,180 |
As was mentioned, Otaku can take 1's in their physical attributes and consequently raise their mental attribute limits by 2. Is a starting Otaku able to allocate more than 6 points to an attribute, in order to take advantage of these higher limits? |
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Jul 12 2004, 12:58 AM
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#39
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 113 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 460 |
Correct me if I'm wrong but a major difference between Magically Active People and Otaku (other then Matrix vs Astral) is that people are *born* either magically active or not. Otaku are introduced via the Deep Resonance, Disonance, or an AI. That at least is my recollection. No one is born an Otaku, but rather they gain it through a matrix related experience. I can't seem to find my copy of the Matrix or SRComp but don't otaku also need a second piece of cyberware other then the datajack to interface with the matrix, thus making them technologically assisted. While I agree the mechanics dealing with Otaku are fairly similar to those dealing with the magically active they miss several key aspects. Drain is just one. MPCP being based on mental stats rather then essence is another. Inability to interact with the astral being a third. I can definitely see the arguement being made that the Matrix is their astral plane, although the fact it's a technological invention rather then a living bioforce creation certainly brings an arguement worthy. Sprites aren't the cousin to Elementals/Spirits. They cost Karma to create. An Ally Spirit would be a far closer comparison if one were to be made.
Are you Polaris in disguise? More seriously, going to the bathroom is hardly an important part of the game mechanics, whereas Aura's are actually so. They even have a skill attached to it called "Aura Reading" whereas I haven't yet seen a skill called "Taking a Piss" or "Artistic Fecal Rendering into a Waste Disposal Unit" listed anywhere on the Active Skill tables. Further, their are specific mentions of the Aura of magical characters and of mundane characters. If Otaku were magically active I'm sure the rule makers would have been kind enough to grant us a little passage explaining it. Further, while I generally respect Tzeentch as a poster on these boards and a contributing writer to SR, his own thoughts on game-play have quite often gone far outside of Canon. That's what he has a webpage for, to express those idea's and allow other like minded (or persuaded) folks to use his versions of rulings. In any case it was a submission to the Matrix, which as far as I can tell was not allowed into the rule book. Sadly, as much as you want your idea's to be canon, they are not. That doesn't make them bad idea's for you to use, or to share with others, but no matter how much you may want to twist things they are simply products of your imagination and not literal translations of the rules at large. |
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Jul 12 2004, 12:59 AM
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#40
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 577 Joined: 12-June 04 Member No.: 6,398 |
Polaris? Hardly.
As far as the bathroom comment goes, that was in response to BitBasher's comment about "and can you prove normal people don't have weird auras when they're decking." I also couldn't care less if my ideas were canonical or not, nor do I particularly care for Tzeentch's style. However, considering he was one of the primary writer's for the otaku rules in 3rd Edition, I imagine his thoughts on the process hold a bit more sway than most since he (hopefully) researched the topic significantly before writing about it. Especially when those thoughts come directly from an actual canonical source. |
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Jul 12 2004, 01:00 AM
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#41
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 113 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 460 |
@Link
Yes they are. pg 136 The Matrix. |
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Jul 12 2004, 01:02 AM
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#42
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 113 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 460 |
Well Misfit Toy, you did make a claim that Mundane Aura's would not in fact change, while Otaku Aura's do change. Further, you made that claim without any textual referance to back it up.
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Jul 12 2004, 01:10 AM
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#43
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 577 Joined: 12-June 04 Member No.: 6,398 |
Very well. Everytime you post a single message on this board in the future, I expect a page reference for each and every comment you make.
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Jul 12 2004, 01:19 AM
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#44
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 113 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 460 |
Oh, I certainly will when trying to rules lawyer something with another poster. Have no fear on that, if I am going to disagree with someone offhand, I'm at least going to post a page referance before calling them an intellectual jackass.
So then, since he wrote it, his opinion lends more weight to non-canonical idea's. Certainly then, we should give all militaries in the world rating 40 radio devices despite the fact such things (and there related counter-parts) obviously break game mechanics completely. (He did afterall did the write up about the Tir-Tingaire Military and enumerated on the subject on his website.) Sorry, but if he submitted something (or submitted something close to what you wrote) and the game designers felt that it should be left out of the canonical text it doesn't get more weight because he wrote it. It, if anything, should be weighted less because of the fact the designers didn't see it fit for canonical status. *** Back on Topic *** While I sympathize with the original posters desire to make Otaku more useful outside of the sphere of influence that is the matrix it is again part of the system of checks and balances of power. There has to be a dissensentive (sp?) to chose a particular archtype over another. Street Samurai are supposed to suffer social consequences of obvious cyberware and it's related essence cost. Magician's suffer drain and possible essence loss. Otaku suffer from an inbuilt mechanic to be true Shadowrunners. They quite easily have the ability to outstrip normal deckers in the matrix and thus must be limited in some way so that normal deckers retain appeal. |
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Jul 12 2004, 01:23 AM
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#45
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 577 Joined: 12-June 04 Member No.: 6,398 |
You failed to reference each and every post you were referring to in your last comment. Please do so before continuing, because I am wholly unable to accept anything you have to say unless you hold my hand while doing so. Thank you.
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Jul 12 2004, 01:24 AM
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#46
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
Well, that really doesn't modify or contradict pg. 55 of the BBB at all: "No Attribute can be given more than 6 points or less than 1." It goes on to say how to apply racial mods to that, but there's nothing about racial modified limits or maximums at all; you *must* put 1-6 points into each Attribute, no more, no less*. Of course most GMs edit the above sentence, eliminating "more than 6 points" and specifying that the final Attribute value (before Bioware modification) cannot be higher than the Racial Modified Limit, but by cannon you can't. This also means that by Canon otaku kinda suck straight out of chargen, thus explainning why people change it. *-There are further rules regarding how racial mods work, and include the further restriction that none of the six basic attributes can have a final rating of 0. |
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Jul 12 2004, 01:34 AM
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#47
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 113 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 460 |
Actually it gives the Otaku 2 extra attribute points to each mental stat. This is the same as an elf gaining 2 extra charisma points for being an elf, thus allowing them to hit 8 Charisma at character creation. It then goes to say this raises their racial modified limit per the standard rules. (Racial Modified Limit x 1.5) If you read the text you're not violating any pre-existing character development rules. Otaku Example Alpha: 21 Attribute Points: 1 Str 1 Qui 1 Bod 6 Int 6 Will 6 Cha Then you apply the 2 extra Attribute Points for being Otaku and putting all physical stats to 1. This gives you a further bonus of raising your Racial Limit to 8 for each Mental Stat. 1 Str 1 Qui 1 Bod 8 Int 8 Will 8 Cha It is at least my belief and that of others to my knowledge that the Otaku bonus points are treated as Racial Bonus points in a fashion.
((Edited out for personal attack))... You're right, I didn't go through and quote absolutely everything, and everyone I was referring to. I like to give the reader of the thread the benefit of the doubt that they can generally follow the conversation in the thread. However, when you're referencing a couple thousand pages of text that people are generally *familiar* with but not necessarily going to have on the computer screen right in front of them it is nice to back up your comments with page referances or even direct quotes from the rule books so people don't have to go searching through the multitude of pages looking for some rule you may or may not have made up. Generally if I am trying to quote a ruling in the books that Im not sure of, or don't have access to or plain can't find I let people know that. I don't try to speak with the Voice of Authority. Most other posters here will do the same. Further, you should follow that link BitBasher has. I'm pretty sure it has something in there about ignoring a statement and twisting it to suit your needs. Kinda like me talking about page referances for Rules Lawyering and you trying to bash my lack of quoting other posters. Twist much? |
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Jul 12 2004, 02:04 AM
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#48
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 16,898 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Untrue, untrue, untrue. Let's go through this. Drain: There is exactly one Physad power that does anything like drain. Are physads therefore not magically active? Essence: This doesn't actually figure into any Awakened character ever. I know what you're thinking, but despite the fact that Magic goes down with Essence, with a few initiations you can be a .00000001-Essence mage with 12 Magic. Astral: Aspected and Physads both can't access the astral. ~J |
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Jul 12 2004, 02:08 AM
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#49
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
Hmm, so you interpret it as 2 extra points to *each* mental stat? Wow, that's pretty powerful. I've never seen that particular interpretation before; from what I've heard most people interpret those extra Attribute Points to be more like two Bonus Attribute Point edges: two points that you distribute among your mental attributes. |
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Jul 12 2004, 02:21 AM
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#50
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 113 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 460 |
Bleh sorry, mental bungle by me. Multi-Tasking to many message boards plus my FF League at the same time.
Sorry, I do interpret it the way you mention (2 points to distribute between the 3 stats) not the way I erroniously mentioned. |
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