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 Making Otaku useful, ...*outside* of the Matrix. |
 Jul 14 2004, 05:36 AM
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#76
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Traumatizing players since 1992  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220  |
Naw, IIRC all AI's can create otaku at GM's whim and fiat. If they wanted to they could make a 40 year old magically active PC that never paid for it into an otaku.
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Jul 14 2004, 05:41 AM
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#77
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
that was an intentional limitation on Deus' part. Ronin was his first otaku, and he functions just fine outside the SCIRE, as does the Network.
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Jul 14 2004, 06:18 AM
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#78
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
But as pointed out, otaku are very different than autistics. I've also worked with a few well-socialized autistics, although technically two were then classified as Autistiform. Nowadays, they'd most likely be classified as "Asperger's"; although a hig-functioning autistic disagnosis could be made in many cases. While I understand what you're saying-- autistic savants do tend to lose their incredible abilities as they become less autistic-- there's a huge ongoing debate as to why that occurs. Not to mention the fact that idiot savants of any stripe are rare to begin with-- in over ten years, I've met exactly one who came close to it. He wasn't a "true" savant, either-- he could do advanced college math, which he taught himself out of calculus textbooks. The man could do very advanced calculus and algebra, faster than I could write problems for him to solve! (True story-- as one of his behavioral reinforcers, I'd give him the most difficult math problems I could come up with. I'd frequently spend a half-hour on a sheet of questions that it took him five minutes to solve.) His math skills were beyond my own; but even so, he was not classified as a true savant due to the fact he wasn't much good at pure number theory.
I have met many people with either Autism or Aspergers. I've done intense work with at least a dozen, and have met a lot more. In fact, one of the first people I met with a true Asperger's diagnosis was at a Star Trek con. She managed to fit in decently well, and had many friends. She wasn't any weirder than the next guy; and considering that she had an eighteen-inch quill running through her nose, that's saying something. See, the traditional "autistic model" happens to be Dustin Hoffman in Rain Man; and I've yet to see an otaku be even encouraged to be like that. A better model happens to be Ed from Cowboy Bebop-- she certainly fits what I pictured as an otaku. The problem isn't having them do the negotiations; Ed certainly could negotiate when she had to. (See "Mushroom Samba" and "Hard Luck Woman" for examples of Ed skillfully manipulating people.) The issue, of course, is keeping her from negotiating for things you don't want. |
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Jul 14 2004, 12:03 PM
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#79
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 16,898 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
The age and lack of payment, yes. Do you have a reference that supercedes the note in Matrix that Otaku cannot be magical? ~J |
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Jul 14 2004, 12:40 PM
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#80
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
I was under the impression that the network was like the Deus created white banded; in that they could access the matrix anywhere with a living persona, but could only use channels and complex forms in the SCIRE matrix. I don't have my books on me and can't double check this right now, but does anyone else remember something like this or am I on crack? As for Ronin/Babel, it is possible that he is "naturally" an Otaku (or wherever the regular vanilla otaku come from) and Deus just awakened those abilities in him. Before I get flamed, I agree that it is equally possible that Deus knows some cool way to make Otaku with no limitations, but it still seems fishy to me. Why wouldn't all of his whites been made without that limitation? I doubt that it's for control because the BTL feed, cutter nanites, and other dependancies are more than enough, in my opinion. It was only the regular otaku that joined him willingly that were spared the chemical/BTL brainwashing. They got religious brainwashing instead. |
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Jul 14 2004, 02:12 PM
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#81
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Target Group: Members Posts: 4 Joined: 24-June 04 Member No.: 6,437 |
Moon-Hawk: Isn't all religion brainwashing?
In other news, you do bring up a point I intentionally omited during my first post. If Deus could create Otaku without limitations, Why wouldn't he? There is no obvious reason to limit them. 1. His conditioning is highly effective. Only two Otaku I know of have broken it, Babel and Sebastian One of whom, Sebastian, never went through the full conditioning process. i.e.: Banded ceremony 2. If Deus created Otaku that were able to operate outside the SCIRE they would have been useful for getting agents outside the Arc. Any sort of backgroud check would make "Regular" Otaku stick out like a sore thumb. Although there are only two points, it sums my point. There is no reason not to create versatile Otaku.....and many reasons to create them. Unless I'm missing some obvious point, logic dictates that the reason Deus didn't create "regular" Otaku was because he couldn't. |
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Jul 14 2004, 03:51 PM
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#82
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 16-August 03 From: Northampton Member No.: 5,499 |
It was my understanding that at the start he couldn't trust "people" (Just look what Ankei did) and only created limited Otaku at the start to "play safe" since even Dues might not of been sure how good his conditioning is (more so since one of his first, turned against him) only later on did he start to "trust" his Otaku and create some that were more flexable.
Offcause this is all just my opinion |
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Jul 14 2004, 04:08 PM
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#83
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 280 Joined: 22-October 03 Member No.: 5,757 |
Who says otaku know anything about human interaction? Charisma 8 doesn't mean much.
It's not like physical beauty, or how nice you smile at people, or just that cool vibe that you put out that gives you that Charisma 8. For Otaku Charisma doesn't equate to 8 Charisma elf Fixer. Charisma 8 for a Fixer = Smooth character, Cool factor, sweet talking, a very good smell, personality, beauty, that jen ne se qua (french spelling is not my forte) (You can be a butt ugly fixer, yet have a way of talking to people that puts them on good terms with you, or just are really likable, even though your face could curdle milk) Charisma 8 for a Shaman = Incredibly strong force of personality. Affinity with spirits. To a lesser extent beauty, or coolness factor. (Remember you can be a crotchety ugly mean bastard to anyone and everyone alive, but still have an 8 charisma for dealing with spirits) Charisma 8 for an Otaku = ???? A bunch of matrix stuff. Doesn't mean anything about how cool, pretty, or strong their real world personality is. Or how well they can deal with spirits. Most people would find the childness of them to either be endearing, or annoying enough to shoot them in the face. Their charisma isn't ment to be a global stat it's ment for matrix stuff. Otherwise they're more effective at fighting spirits than most mages/shamans/adepts are. Will of 8 means 8 dice to attack tn 4. with charisma 8 M damage. Most normal mages shamans and adepts have less dice to throw. Then again I'm just biased against Otaku in general. :) I hate the idea of a super decker walking around with only a datajack as his only bit of cyberware and a compact fold up sat-uplink in his pocket. You can't procecute them under the law, as they don't have illegal programs, or cyberdecks. They can walk into any corp building semi-legally and not worry about MADs or being searched. |
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Jul 14 2004, 04:23 PM
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#84
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
um, right. the Charisma stat has absolutely nothing to do with human interaction. i'm going to let the hilarity of that statement stand on its own, i think.
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Jul 14 2004, 04:24 PM
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#85
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
But not all brainwashing is religious. :grinbig: |
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Jul 14 2004, 08:27 PM
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#86
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
The exact quote says that no *known* otaku are Awakened. It's not an exclusive limitation. |
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