Electro Magnetic Pulse - Dumpshock Forums

Electro Magnetic Pulse, The grim reaper of cyber (Except where?)

Plastic Rat View Member Profile	Jul 11 2004, 07:12 AM Post #1
Target Group: Members Posts: 58 Joined: 30-April 02 From: Taiwan, Kaohsiung UB chapter Member No.: 2,665	I recall reading something about shielding for cyber from EMPs, but can't find it. I've trawled through Man & Machine, no luck. My rationale is that it HAS to exist. Can anyone remember reading about it, in what book was it etc? Also, anyone have any house rules for it? (Looks both ways for players entering the thread.)

Jason Farlander View Member Profile	Jul 11 2004, 07:16 AM Post #2
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,049 Joined: 24-March 03 Member No.: 4,323	I assume all cyberware to be intrinsically shielded from EMP, as its really not hard to accomplish.

kevyn668 View Member Profile	Jul 11 2004, 07:16 AM Post #3
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375	IIRC there are no canon rules for EMPs...but I don't have the SSG or SOTA:2063. :)

Eyeless Blond

Jul 11 2004, 08:40 AM

Post #4

Decker on the Threshold

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QUOTE (Jason Farlander @ Jul 11 2004, 02:16 AM)

I assume all cyberware to be intrinsically shielded from EMP, as its really not hard to accomplish.

Well, you do kinda have to worry about anything with a direct link to the surrounding air, like cyberlimbs and maybe datajacks, but yeah, most of the internal 'ware will be protected by the giant Faraday sack of conductive saltwater we call a body. :) Anything that can overwhelm *that* bit of shielding would probably kill the person anyway, and at that point the cyber's warranty is probably up anyway. :D

BGMFH View Member Profile	Jul 11 2004, 10:18 AM Post #5
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 403 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Kill Em All Member No.: 2,018	Tech in SR is mostly Optical Based, removing EMPs from the mix.

Accel View Member Profile	Jul 11 2004, 11:54 AM Post #6
Target Group: Members Posts: 55 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Shibanokuji Freefall Resort Member No.: 1,043	Well, as a means for information transfer, alright. But no engine oder servo is driven by light. And there is no way for the neural pathways to accept optical input. Ergo, cyberware, especially interface tech and sensor tech, but motion tech as well, needs at least some electrical conduits.

Austere Emancipa... Austere Emancipator View Member Profile	Jul 11 2004, 12:14 PM Post #7
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222	[Nevermind.] This post has been edited by Austere Emancipator: Jul 11 2004, 12:15 PM

Plastic Rat View Member Profile	Jul 11 2004, 12:44 PM Post #8
Target Group: Members Posts: 58 Joined: 30-April 02 From: Taiwan, Kaohsiung UB chapter Member No.: 2,665	So, is there something ELSE that would be devastating to electronics and especially cyber that could be used in a portable, semi-explosive capacity. Don't be an ass and say something like ALL explosions, strong enough, will have that effect. I want something that will have the same effect as an EMP. Shutting down and hindering electronics randomly/globally in it's radius (10 metres is good). Other thing, this is new to me, cyber is earthed by your body?!? Explain? I'm not sure EXACTLY in scientific terms what an EMP is, I just know that in Cyberpunk, armored monsters would scream like little girls when you threw one near them.

Cray74

Jul 11 2004, 01:41 PM

Post #9

Running Target

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QUOTE (Plastic Rat)

I recall reading something about shielding for cyber from EMPs, but can't find it. I've trawled through Man & Machine, no luck. My rationale is that it HAS to exist.

Look in the beginning of SR3, in the history section. Around 2004 or 2005, optical computer chips immune to EMP are developed.

EMP is basically a pulse of electromagnetic radiation (i.e., radio waves, microwaves, x-rays, gamma-rays, etc.) that generate substantial electrical currents in conductors. Essentially, any conductor gets turned into an antenna. If the conductor is small enough relative to the currents pumped up by the EMP (microchip wiring is very vulnerable), the currents can cause local burn-outs due to plain old resistive heating.

For a spiffy anti-cyberware attack, consider big ole tasers or electrical attacks. Of course, that'll be dangerous to anyone.

Also recall when you start tossing anti-cyberware weaponry around, players may get annoyed at their expensive losses.

Jason Farlander

Jul 11 2004, 04:02 PM

Post #10

Running Target

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QUOTE (Eyeless Blond)

Well, you do kinda have to worry about anything with a direct link to the surrounding air, like cyberlimbs and maybe datajacks, but yeah, most of the internal 'ware will be protected by the giant Faraday sack of conductive saltwater we call a body. :) Anything that can overwhelm *that* bit of shielding would probably kill the person anyway, and at that point the cyber's warranty is probably up anyway. :D

Eh, just assume a faraday cage or equivalent is encorporated into the outer structure of external ware, or that the important bits (motors and processors) are shielded if you dont like that. For things like dermal plating/sheathing it shouldnt matter, anyway.

A datajack is a somewhat more interesting problem, as it potentially allows EMP to bypass the protection the natural protection possessed by the human body and affect someone's brain. That seems problematic. However, I dont have a big problem saying that they figured something out in that regard.

Siege View Member Profile	Jul 11 2004, 05:25 PM Post #11
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916	CP2020 had rules for proofing electronics and ware against EMP attacks, but as it has been pointed out earlier, SR 'netics are immune to EMP weapons. Granted, a strong enough EMP weapon will still frag with optical systems, but by that point it'll mess with the wetware just as much. -Siege

kevyn668 View Member Profile	Jul 11 2004, 06:20 PM Post #12
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375	So, are there rules for EMPs?

Siege View Member Profile	Jul 11 2004, 06:29 PM Post #13
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916	In SR? None that I am aware of. As per Canon, EMP weapons are ineffective since "everything" is optical now. :P Does the reasoning hold water? Several threads have decided not, but on a strictly canonical level... -Siege

last_of_the_grea...

Jul 11 2004, 06:49 PM

Post #14

Running Target

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Look under the lightning bolt elemental effects if ya wanna make up some rules for it.

Here's what it says.

QUOTE

"Lightning can short out or overload electronics (with -1 to the equipment's resistance) and may ignite flammable materials(like fire spells above). Metallic armour provides no protection, but special insulation or lack of grounding (a flying or levitating target, for example) may reduce the power of the attack at the gamemaster's discretion."

Next, let's move on to Man and Machine, where they talk about stress points to implants. On page 126 it says,

QUOTE

"Whenever an implant or attribute takes stress, the player must make a stress test"

Skip down a little and it says,

QUOTE

"Gamemasters may also require stress tests in situations in which the implant or attribute is subject to extreme conditions."

On page 127 of M&M it refers to electrical damage.

QUOTE

"Attacks that cause electrical damage automatically effect cyberwear and may even damage more than one system simultaneously. This includes damage from tasers, stun batons, electrified fences, electrical critter power, elemental manipulation spells and so on.
"For each wound suffered from an electrical attack by a character with cyberwear, apply the wound effect as described in Determine System Affected and roll an additional D6; on a result of 1 or 2, the attack damages another piece of cyberwear."

It goes on and on, but you get the point.

Now, the stress rules state that an implant rolls a number of dice vs. a target number equal to the amount of stress points that the implant has acumulated. One success is enough to prevent system failure. Higher grade cyberwear gets more dice to roll. It pays to start off with alphawear or to buy beta/deltawear.

Now, you can extrapolate from this. An electro magnetic pulse would definitely affect cyberwear, leaving the character unharmed. Determine the number of stress points taken and have the cyberwear roll dice based on the cyberwear grade. If he gets all failures, the cyberwear is fragged! Voila...EMP. Vs. Cyberwear rules! :)

RangerJoe View Member Profile	Jul 11 2004, 07:22 PM Post #15
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 749 Joined: 22-June 02 From: Parts Without Member No.: 2,897	A very well reasoned point. A good way to deal with EMP and other electromagnetic phenomena is to recognize that in canon SR: (most) metals are still electroconductive ferromagnetic metals can still be magnetized (ah, cybermagnets and hand-grenades...) *all computing is optically based (re-reading VR 2.0.... all the talk aboout uncooked crystal lattices reminds of of Zardoz...)

Siege View Member Profile	Jul 11 2004, 07:25 PM Post #16
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916	I should mention that I'm all for EMP still being useful and viable as a _completely_ optical system would be amazingly difficult to construct. Although, it would explain the SR price list. :grinbig: -Siege

KarmaInferno View Member Profile	Jul 11 2004, 09:14 PM Post #17
Old Man Jones Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,415 Joined: 26-February 02 From: New York Member No.: 1,699	I recall in one of the older books speculating about the effects of sonic attacks on the optical chips used by electronics in SR. Was anything ever developed further on that? -karma

Jason Farlander View Member Profile	Jul 11 2004, 09:15 PM Post #18
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,049 Joined: 24-March 03 Member No.: 4,323	Theres a difference between lightning and EMP. Lightning transfers an existing electric current to a target, whereas EMP induces a current in the target. It is relatively easy to shield against EMP, as I've said. All you need is to surround the object you want to protect with copper mesh (which doesnt even have to be particularly fine, i think the holes can be as big as 1cm) and youre set. It really wouldnt be a big deal to encorporate such a thing into external cyberware, and internal 'ware would be protected by the existence of a body surrounding it. The same safeguards against EMP will not, however, necessarily work against direct electrical stimulation. If you are hit by a taser/lightning bolt/whatever, that current has already entered your body - bypassing that level of protection. That current can travel through your nervous system and into any ware that is DNI controlled - hence the effects of electrical attacks on cyber. (though I'd still say it would not be able to affect anything lacking DNI control, as those systems could be self-contained and insulated against such things at minimal cost)

Kagetenshi View Member Profile	Jul 11 2004, 09:37 PM Post #19
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802	What would lack neural interface? Cranial bombs? [Edit] And bone lacing, and some other structural cyberware… yeah, ignore that. ~J

Jason Farlander View Member Profile	Jul 11 2004, 09:43 PM Post #20
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,049 Joined: 24-March 03 Member No.: 4,323	Bone Lacing, for example. I dont really feel like going through and picking out every piece of internal 'ware that wouldnt necessarily be neurally-linked, so I'll just say that there are probably a few more that are at least arguable. And I would say that it would be a good thing for cranial bombs to not be affected by electrical attacks... wouldn't you?

Da9iel View Member Profile	Jul 12 2004, 07:36 AM Post #21
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 556 Joined: 28-May 04 From: Moorhead, MN, USA Member No.: 6,367	I don't know. I'd love for my cranial bomb detonator circuit to get fried. Just don't cook off the bomb :eek:

CircuitBoyBlue View Member Profile	Jul 12 2004, 08:18 AM Post #22
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 830 Joined: 3-April 04 From: Columbus, Ohio Member No.: 6,215	How difficult is it to create an EMP, anyway. According to every movie I've seen (yeah, that's right, I trust the screen), it's required something along the lines of a nuclear explosion. I'm sure that's not the only way to do it, but would it be feasible to do it with something you mount on your shoulder and aim?

Zazen View Member Profile	Jul 12 2004, 08:40 AM Post #23
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,685 Joined: 17-August 02 Member No.: 3,123	You can download plans for EMP guns off the internet, along with plans for a device to melt people through their telephone handset, gadgets that make payphones spit up all their quarters which are in a one-way inaccessible safe, free energy devices which work off alien semen, and the infamous Blotto Box which can liquify all phone lines on earth.

Diesel View Member Profile	Jul 12 2004, 09:02 AM Post #24
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 608 Joined: 9-July 02 From: California Member No.: 2,955	I believe the military was developing / has developed a munition designed to be delivered by missile or bomb with the primary effect of an EMP. It definitely wasn't a nuclear weapon, in the "kills everything" sense of the word. Google turns up a lot of conspiracy theories using my terms, so good luck!

CircuitBoyBlue View Member Profile	Jul 12 2004, 09:34 AM Post #25
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 830 Joined: 3-April 04 From: Columbus, Ohio Member No.: 6,215	After an hour or so more thought I guess I do remember NATO dropping something that cut off large portions of the power grid in Belgrade, and there being a huge stink about it because it's inhumane to cut off power to the hospitals serving the area you're bombing (we bourgeois Westerners are really spoiled when it comes to war). But would something like this be feasible as a man-portable weapon? I mean outside of circles where alien semen is an energy source.

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