Spirit Damage, How does this work again? Options

[Tyron]

Ok, I'd just like a little clarification on spirit damage.

I know when a spirit takes Deadly Stun damage in the astral plane, then the spirit is disrupted. But when a spirit takes Deadly Physical damage in the astral plane, is the spirit destroyed?

On the flip side, I know if a spirit takes Deadly Physical damage while materialized then the spirit is disrupted. But what about when the spirit takes Deadly Stun damage while materialized? Is the spirit disrupted, or does it remain materialized and unconscious?

Thanks in advance!

[TinkerGnome]

I disrupt the spirit in all four cases. Can't provide you a page reference, though.

[Backgammon]

Disrupted in all cases I believe. And you can't render spirits unconscious, seeing how they don't have metahuman anatomies.

[Apathy]

I believe there was another thread on this same topic a couple months ago. If I remember their conclusions correctly, deadly physical damage delivered through the astral plane destroys the spirit, while stun damage on astral, or any type of damage on physical plane it's merely disrupted.

As far as spirits with physical bodies, flesh form bug spirits and spirits with the inhabiting power might be able to get knocked unconscious without being dispelled...

[RedmondLarry]

The main book says a spirit is Disrupted (a) if Astral Combat takes it to Deadly Stun (center left SR3.176) or (b) the Spirit's Force is reduced to 0 from it attacking an Astral Object (top right SR3.176). In either case the Spirit can return after 28-Force days (SR3.176), or can be retrieved earlier with an Astral Quest (MitS.95).

MitS expands Disruption for a Spirit to include Deadly Physical or Stun damage while on the Physical Plane (Disruption, MitS.98).

Banishing (SR3.189) destroys standard spirits permanently, but the Character doing the Banishing must not be Astrally projecting or perceiving (Astral Conjuring SR3.189). The main book does not use the word "killed" to describe the results of banishing (SR3.189).

There is a notion of Spirits getting killed, as SR3.189 3rd paragraph says "If a spirit is killed or disrupted, its summoner knows immediately."

Deadly Physical Damage to a Spirit while it is on the Astral plane kills a nature spirit or elemental, because this is clearly left out of the list (MitS.98) of things that disrupt a spirit. For other types of spirits, deadly physical damage on the astral plane ("killing") might not destroy the spirit.

Banishing of an Ally Spirit, by anyone but its summoner, merely disrupts it (SR3.113).

A Free Spirit can only be destroyed by someone who knows the Free Spirit's true name. This can be done by banishing (on the physical plane); or by combat on the astral plane or the spirit's home plane. (5th paragraph MitS.115)

I've not examined other special spirit types.

While characters can live for a while past 10 boxes of physical damage (SR3.125), I don't give such a margin to spirits.

[Cain]

Bug spirits: True forms can be banished, although their force is doubled for this purpose. Flesh forms cannot be banished (p 128, MitS). With that in mind, I'd say the only way to kill them is to destroy their physical body. As dual-natured beings, I'd say that they are the lone exception-- they get treated like any dual paracritter, and thus are allowed overflow.