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 Weapon Foci and the unarmed adept, Brass Knuckles? |
 Jul 19 2004, 10:13 PM
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#26
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Shooting Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,632 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Portland Oregon, USA Member No.: 1,304  |
I'm completely getting the point. The point is, unarmed is in many ways less effective than armed combat. The lack of a weapon focus is one. If all things are equal, having a weapon is better than not having one.
But, this lack is at least balanced by all the other issues, such as metal detectors, possibility of being stolen, adding distance strike or delay damage, being able to use maneuvers, the huge cost in cash, etc etc etc. In short, I think that the unarmed focus takes away a disadvantage without adding a new one. If the system was broken, no one would use unarmed specialists, but they do. My troll phys add with killing hands D and distance strike is waiting for anyone with the same amount of karma and cash to come see him with a weapon focus. |
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Jul 19 2004, 10:35 PM
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#27
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Target Group: Members Posts: 97 Joined: 12-July 04 From: A spherical chunk of green cheese Member No.: 6,472 |
Being able to use a weapon focus isn't an advantage - it's an option. You don't get it for free. It's a method of spending hundreds of thousands of nuyen that is available to armed combat specialists, but not hand-to-hand fighters, and there's absolutely no reason why it should not be. You've already mentioned that there are better ways to spend the money (converting it to karma) than to buy a weapon focus. Under the current system, that's what an unarmed adept would be doing. Allowing him to buy a weapon focus by no means disrupt the balance, because it means that he won't be able to channel that money towards other things which you argued, and I agreed, to be more cost-effective.
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Jul 19 2004, 10:38 PM
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#28
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,632 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Portland Oregon, USA Member No.: 1,304 |
So, you agree that a weapon focus which doesn't have to be wielded like a weapon focus may not be the best idea?
I'd allow the brass knuckles or hardliner gloves as foci, they're perfectly reasonable, even if I think they're a waste. But a whole new focus that turns your whole body into a magic weapon is way beyond anything I'd let into my game. |
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Jul 19 2004, 10:45 PM
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#29
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Target Group: Members Posts: 97 Joined: 12-July 04 From: A spherical chunk of green cheese Member No.: 6,472 |
Personally, I wouldn't care that much one way or another, but that's more about flavor than game balance. However, my argument wasn't that they should be able to use underwear as their unarmed focus. It was that if they do have an underwear unarmed focus, it should be stackable with Killing Hands since it isn't disrupting the original balance in any way, shape, or form, regardless of whether or not you think it was balanced in the first place. |
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Jul 19 2004, 11:06 PM
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#30
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,632 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Portland Oregon, USA Member No.: 1,304 |
Oh, I see.
I guess we disagree on that as well. I'd rate any weapon focus as overpowering the magic of the killing hands. Either you're an unarmed fighter or you're not. I wouldn't let killing hands, delay damage or distance strike work with gloves or brass knuckles. You're bypassing the entire spirit of the word "unarmed". The previously mentioned scenario of shock gloves doing StrS physical then 9S stun doesn't work right in my head. Even if the gloves are magical some how, I'd say that they interfere with the natural working of the killing hands magic. |
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Jul 19 2004, 11:15 PM
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#31
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 515 Joined: 10-April 04 From: Chicago, IL...Ich vermisse Deutschland. Member No.: 6,230 |
I'm also of that opinion. It's a dodge of the weapon part, really. Even with brass knuckles, you're armed. Don |
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Jul 19 2004, 11:56 PM
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#32
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 173 Joined: 16-July 04 Member No.: 6,488 |
You do realize that Killing Hands L, a 0.5 point power, "turns your whole body into a magic weapon" right? Just one without any bonus dice.
Regardless of individual opinions, there's no reason that an "Unarmed Weapon Focus" is unbalancing, EndGame. You'll just need to ask your GM about it. When you do, just let him know that it's identical in all ways to any other weapon focus but only applies to unarmed attacks (Reach 0). The costs, benefits, and hindrances are all going to be identical to any other Reach 0 Weapon Focus. See what he has to say on it. |
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Jul 20 2004, 12:17 AM
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#33
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 515 Joined: 10-April 04 From: Chicago, IL...Ich vermisse Deutschland. Member No.: 6,230 |
That is nowhere in the power description. Killing hands: use that for astral combat if you percieve into the astral, decide whether you can do physical or stun damage based on level, ignore immunity to normal weapons. Core Book pg 170. Weapon Focus: Is a weapon and inflicts base damage per weapon type (not like killing hands). Also usable against astral critters, and can be taken with you on the astral. pg. 191. Now let's look at critters, shall we. What does Critters reference as super-effective: Weapon foci! For Regeration (pg. 14) and Immunity to Normal Weapons (pg. 11). No mention is made for Killing Hands, house rules aside, it does not do the same thing as a weapon foci, ergo it ain't one. They do similar things, but they aren't the same. One is based on astral energy making your punches more. One is based on a bond that empowers a weapon type. This isn't a quacks, ergo duck case. And also that you are insisting upon having a focus to give bonus dice to an attack that looks more or less exclusive in its execution. Ask your GM; even point out this thread. Again, this is a YMMV decision if you want to expand beyond what's written. As it's his or her game, the game balance issues are for him/her to consider, including the possible ramifications. It's not so cut and dried. Don |
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Jul 20 2004, 03:24 AM
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#34
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 102 Joined: 26-February 02 From: harrisburg metroplex, pa Member No.: 623 |
obviously i can make weapon foci out of my kinjo™ brand shock boots.
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Jul 21 2004, 02:19 PM
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#35
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
Here's a strange thought: Living telesma. Enchant the adept as a weapon focus.
Maybe I'm just sleep deprived, but that sounds like a cool idea. Brings new meaning to the term 'virgin telesma'. Could this actually work? |
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Jul 21 2004, 03:38 PM
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#36
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 515 Joined: 10-April 04 From: Chicago, IL...Ich vermisse Deutschland. Member No.: 6,230 |
Hmmm. There has to be some sort of orchicalcum (bone lacing anyone?) on him in an indivisible fashion. The adept would have to pay the karma costs to bond with himself and abide by all the problems that a having a weapon focus entails.
I wouldn't allow it though. Somehow I can't imagine someone wanting to be forged. Don |
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Jul 21 2004, 03:45 PM
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#37
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 173 Joined: 16-July 04 Member No.: 6,488 |
No there doesn't. Orichalcum simply has to be used in the enchanting process, and only if you buy the fluff text in the core rulebook. The actual rules for enchanting a weapon focus never mention a requirement for orichalcum whatsoever. But considering the insane karmic costs for enchanting a weapon focus, you'd be stupid not to use a large chunk of it while doing so. |
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Jul 21 2004, 04:11 PM
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#38
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 476 Joined: 30-December 03 From: Fresno, CFS: taking out one durned furriner at a time. Member No.: 5,940 |
If the adept gets turned into a weapon focus, can we dikote him/her? :wobble:
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Jul 21 2004, 04:17 PM
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#39
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,632 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Portland Oregon, USA Member No.: 1,304 |
If you are DiKoted, do you take half damage from auto-fire flechette pistols?
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Jul 21 2004, 04:30 PM
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#40
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
Unless you're having sex with it. No, wait, that's ally spirits.
...and you don't have to be "forged," premade telesma are valid. N. Monkey addressed the orichalcum issue for me. |
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Jul 21 2004, 04:35 PM
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#41
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,632 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Portland Oregon, USA Member No.: 1,304 |
I'd guess that anyone with an essence of six would count as "virgin talesma", which would drop the cost some. How much karma does it cost to bond yourself <edit>I'm pretty sure I'm not supposed to say what was in this space</edit>
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Jul 21 2004, 04:51 PM
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#42
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
What was in that space was hilarious.
Although a bit scary coming from someone named Bearclaw. (ouch!) |
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