Monowire and defenses against it |
Monowire and defenses against it |
Jul 19 2004, 07:10 PM
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#1
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,401 Joined: 23-February 04 From: Honolulu, HI Member No.: 6,099 |
Finally got one of those reprinted Man and Machine sourcebooks. Overall, its an ok book, got some areas that made me frown, but I'll save that for another topic.
What I did like was some background info it provided. It expanded more on nanotech and how its used for cybergear and such, as well as the new section on nanogear specific systems. Anyhoo, it talked about how nanos were used to make nanowire, originally intended to be woven into monowire cables, able to support huge weights. But has been more known for the infamous monowire whip. What I was wondering, would it be possible to completely protect yourself from cutting yourself off at the knees by lacing your shin/knee guards with monocable? Heck at most you'd probably only need 2 cables. Would monowire snap when running into monowire cable? Would you trip over the monowire like it was a regular wire (but strong) strung across the hallway? How much would you think it would cost? Would it be worthwhile as a defense? What other defense could you get to completely protect versus monowire tripline dismemberment? Sure loading up on heavy armor is one way, but I'm looking for something a bit more subtle. |
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Jul 19 2004, 07:20 PM
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#2
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Loading up on very light armor. There's absolutely nothing saying monowire protects against monowire. Rules-wise the only way is to get yourself enough Impact armor to be able to soak the monowire damage. So you've got to stick with RL facts and common sense, in which case protecting against simple static monowire traps is easy: Foot, shin and thigh guards made out of an extremely hard ceramic material. Ie pay double-triple-quadruple or whatever looks good for your shin guards and that's it. There are shitloads of threads discussing the reality of monowires on this forum, Search is crapping out on me so I can't find any but I know they're there. |
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Jul 19 2004, 07:48 PM
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#3
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,685 Joined: 17-August 02 Member No.: 3,123 |
If you want some serious protection, get cyberlegs with a lot of impact armor plating. That's going pretty far, though, unless you've already got the legs and some ECU to spare.
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Jul 19 2004, 07:58 PM
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#4
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Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033 |
Or hold a ribbon in your gun hand that is just long enough to not toucht he floor from tyou natural alert stance. if you see the ribbon move but can't see the cause, you know there is a trip wire or some mono-wire.
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Jul 19 2004, 08:04 PM
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#5
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,685 Joined: 17-August 02 Member No.: 3,123 |
And so long as you move no quicker than .01 mph and keep your eyes on the ribbon instead of your surroundings, you'll be fine ;)
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Jul 19 2004, 08:04 PM
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#6
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Honestly you should rarely ever see monowire strung in hallways, or anywhere else for this matter. Employees have to walk down those hallways. Furthermore, monowire costs 3000 bucks per square meter. There's a LOT better ways to spend tens of thousands of nuyen than this type of defense. It's just really, really not feasable to sting this across halways as a standard defense for the same reasons you don't find two step lasers and autogun turrets everyplace. In a zero-zone maybe, but you should be staying away from those anyway.
Also monowire isn't as impressive as people newer to the game think it is. It's only actually good against soft targets. It will not slice anything with a barrier rating higher that is 5 or higher. Anything with a barrier rating of 10 or higher is totally immune to it. |
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Jul 19 2004, 09:40 PM
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#7
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
I am in favor of monoweave armor. A few million :nuyen: each sock, but converts all (non drug) physical damage against that location into stun at 2 less power. Also makes monowhips and monotripwires no more dangerous than a standard whip or tripwire to such covered regions. Actually, due to the method of the monowhip, it should do half of normal whip damage if the person is fully armored by monoweave.
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Jul 19 2004, 10:29 PM
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#8
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
and if the fabric gets a run in it, you lose limbs and/or organs!
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Jul 20 2004, 03:31 AM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 102 Joined: 26-February 02 From: harrisburg metroplex, pa Member No.: 623 |
so i'm a huge 3.2m troll with a full suit of your monoweave. i run up and jump on some corpsec chump. who gets turned into bits an pieces, me and/or him?
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Jul 20 2004, 03:43 AM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 173 Joined: 16-July 04 Member No.: 6,488 |
You don't lose limbs and/or organs by running into monowire. It's basically just a really sharp razorblade.
All you have to do to avoid it is pay attention to where you're walking. A group of runners shouldn't have trouble consistantly getting at least one 8 on a Perception Test, and that's all it takes to spot it. It also only has a Barrier Rating of 5 (making it more fragile than other types of trip wire which has a BR of 6). A character with a Strength of 5 or higher that runs into it (a "blunt attack") will snap it without much trouble (creating a "one-half meter hole" and lowering the BR of the remaining wire by -1). He'll still get hurt, but not the point where he loses a limb. Unless the GM decides to do that for whatever reason. |
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Jul 20 2004, 03:48 AM
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#11
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Neither. To make armor out of monofilaments, you weave it like you do with modern body armor materials, except that the single filaments are going to be "glued" to each other far more tightly, so that the suit doesn't kill its wearer. |
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Jul 20 2004, 05:11 AM
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#12
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,685 Joined: 17-August 02 Member No.: 3,123 |
Well, bones have a Barrier Rating of no more than 4 so the monowire will make a half-meter hole in them and reduce their ratings by one. It'll probably make half-meter holes in the surrounding flesh, too, which surely has a barrier rating even lower than that of bones. If the GM has the presence of mind to apply barrier rules to the wire, he might also remember to apply them to the characters legs. And while neither of these particularly appeal to me in terms of gameplay, it would be pretty cool for a crazed taxidermist to keep all those feet and mount them in his home :wobble: |
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Jul 20 2004, 10:29 AM
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#13
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Use cyber legs, install DNI wire cutters in those legs. Wire cutters trump wires.
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Jul 20 2004, 12:01 PM
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#14
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 9-June 02 Member No.: 2,860 |
I tend to figure monowire has limited hardness. Sure, it's strong, but it still has to be able to hold together while it cuts the target material. Like Kevlar or Spectra: they might be stronger than steel, but they won't cut steel because they're softer. For that reason, I figure any ceramic-backed armor should be able to survive monowire. Also steel and other hard metals. My rule of thumb is that if the barrier, hardened armor, or vehicular armor rating is higher than the power of the monowire, there's no penetration. |
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Jul 20 2004, 03:21 PM
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#15
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Should be half the rating of the monowire, as barrier ratings are doubled against monowire. It doesn't penetrate anything hard well at all.
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Jul 20 2004, 04:23 PM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 173 Joined: 16-July 04 Member No.: 6,488 |
Bah.
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Jul 20 2004, 07:06 PM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 100 Joined: 14-June 04 Member No.: 6,400 |
Monowire is very thin (and thusly sharp) and has incredible TENSIL strength.
Like string, it is easy to snap or cut, but it can hold up an incredible amount of weight. If properly tied to a handle, dentil floss can hold up the wieght of a person. But the minute they start to struggle or swing, the floss will break. If monowire hit monowire, one would cut through the other, or they would become entangled. Just like really sharp string. The key word to look at is "Mono-Fillament" not Mono. Mono meaning 1 (for the incredibly thin) and Fillament (for the high tensil metal that makes it). "Monofillament Cloth" would LOSE the "mono" portion and instead just be "Filament Cloth", basically cloth made of metal. Modern day bridge cables are made by braiding many smaller cables together to create a cable with much higher swing/strugle snap resistance. More floss doesn't increase the tensil strength as much as it makes it able to handle the swing and bounce. Mono-wire cables uses the same philosphy, but takes the science down to a nano-technology level, thus creating cables with incredible tensil and bounce strength. This resulting cables would not be sharp. Imagine string cheese made of steel. Eventually you would pull off a string of metal thin enough to cut with. If monowire was woven into fabric, it would be just like normal cloth, but would have incredible tensil strength. If a monowire hit this fabric, the wire would be "sharper", because it is only 1 micron thick, while the combined monowires in the cloth lose there sharpness because they are much thicker in their current state. Thusly the Monowhip would cut through the mono-cloth like normal. The resulting frayed ends would then be very dangerous to the wearer. |
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Jul 20 2004, 07:53 PM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 128 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Winston Salem, NC Member No.: 1,359 |
Raife, you have some very interesting ideas on the subject, and while they don't mesh with mine, they are sound, depending on the assumptions you make about monowire technology.
Monowire is very thin and has high tensile strength, making it sharp. But how thick is it? If it is carbon nanotubes, it is substantially smaller than a micron is cross section. If it is some other molecule, and we make the assumption that 'mono' means 'single molecule thick', it still will not come close to being a micron in diameter. Single walled carbon nanotubes are 1.2-1.4 nanometers in diameter, which if I am not mistaken is 1/1000th of a micron. Cray should be along to correct anything I got wrong, but here is the source of my info. Tubes So if you go with my assumptions, and use a variant of what is proposed there, monowire is sharp because it slips between molecules very easily. However, if it comes up against a long molecule, it cannot slip between it if it is perpendicular. Thus it becomes a strength test. When you take into account that one filament is being pitted against thousands, the single filament will lose the brute strength contest. Anyway, some ideas to think about. |
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Jul 20 2004, 08:33 PM
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#19
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Monowire is not metal BTW, it's made of Carbon Buckytubes. That is stated in canon.
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Jul 20 2004, 11:20 PM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 128 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Winston Salem, NC Member No.: 1,359 |
I thought so, but couldn't find it quickly, so didn't categorically state it.
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Jul 20 2004, 11:39 PM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 100 Joined: 14-June 04 Member No.: 6,400 |
I haven't done any reading on it since second ed, but I remember it being stated clearly that it was "almost a micron thick". In retrospect that probably means UNDER a micron in width, for some reason I interpretted it as slight over a micron thick... of course... like this bit matters hehe.
My basic analysis of the situation is based on string being woven into fabric. You can cut butter by slicing it with a string, but not with a shirt. This would be the same case if you made clothing out of monofillament wire. I'm basically just extrapolating data from exagerated situations under the assumption that microsized items would obey the same relative laws. At least in my book. I am far from the expert on ficticious science :) |
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Jul 20 2004, 11:44 PM
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#22
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 9-June 02 Member No.: 2,860 |
Not really. The strength of a material is in terms of force per unit area. If you have an uber-strong super duper material like, say, carbon nanotubes with a tensile strength of 1 million pounds per square inch...well, gee, if you have a monowire with a thick and beefy cross-section of 1 mil (1/1000th of an inch), it has a cross section of 1 millionth of a square inch, and thus can only carry 1 pound of force before snapping. Better not snag it on anything solid. And, of course, if you want a thinner, molecule-thick material, or even something as thick as a micron (1 millionth of a meter)...don't let it get near any strong breezes. It'll snap if you stare at it cross-eyed. |
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Jul 21 2004, 09:38 AM
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#23
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The back-up plan Group: Retired Admins Posts: 8,423 Joined: 15-January 03 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,910 |
Bypassing logistical arguments and moving straight to evil--If you're worried about monowire traps send "disposable assets" down the hallway in front of you. (These include Corp-Sec, bums and small children. ) If the person in front of you starts to bleed, you may have a problem that you need to take care of.
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Jul 21 2004, 12:35 PM
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#24
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Chicago Survivor Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 5,079 Joined: 28-January 04 From: Canton, GA Member No.: 6,033 |
This is starting to remind me of the movie "The Cube". There was a room that had a monowire trap.
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Jul 21 2004, 03:43 PM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 236 Joined: 14-March 04 From: Cal Poly: SLO Member No.: 6,155 |
Big Knobi Klub has some great stuff on monowire.
In my group, we treat monowire as buckytubes - long carbon chains. They don't break but certain ceramics will stop it. Working with it requires special tools with monowire embedded in them. In fact, I had a contact once who had managed to get the kit used to install the stuff, then just went around to corporate facilities taking the monowire from the top of their fences. Nevermind going inside when stuff that 'rare' is hanging around the entire place. |
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