 Monowire and defenses against it |
  |
 Jul 21 2004, 04:02 PM
Post
#26
|
|||
|
Traumatizing players since 1992  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220  |
Since monowire cannot directly cut through anything with a barrier rating higher than 5, you're making it a lot cooler than it really is...
|
||
 |
 
|
||
|
Jul 21 2004, 04:13 PM
Post
#27
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 173 Joined: 16-July 04 Member No.: 6,488 |
Actually it's not going to cut through anything with a Barrier Rating of 4 or higher on its own, BR of 5 if aggressively applied to the object, or BR 6 even if slung like a whip.
Now if you sit there and saw with it, you'll eventually make it through anything up to a max BR of 20 or so depending on the type of saw. But that's going to take a good long while. |
|
|
|
|
Jul 21 2004, 04:30 PM
Post
#28
|
|
|
Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Actually I thought max BR of 10, not 20, because since BR is doubled versus it at a BR of 10 it effectively has a BR of 20 and it can no longer degrade anything.
|
|
|
|
|
Jul 21 2004, 04:43 PM
Post
#29
|
|||
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 9-June 02 Member No.: 2,860 |
If you do treat them as carbon buckytubes, remember: carbon burns, whether it's diamond, graphite, buckyballs, or buckytubes. IMG, a cigarette lighter or match will cut it just fine. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jul 21 2004, 04:45 PM
Post
#30
|
|
|
Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Actually they were identified as carbon buckytubes in one of the core sourcebooks.
|
|
|
|
|
Jul 21 2004, 05:28 PM
Post
#31
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 173 Joined: 16-July 04 Member No.: 6,488 |
Duh. <smacks self> I stand corrected. Math has never been my strong point. That should be Barrier Rating 12 then since monowire can do up to 11S damage, you'll need an effective Barrier of 23 or higher. And that requires the monowire to be sawed at a high speed equivalent to running speed, otherwise a BR of 8 or 10 will stop it just fine. BR 11 will stop a monowhip, too. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jul 21 2004, 08:40 PM
Post
#32
|
|||
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 9-June 02 Member No.: 2,860 |
Excellent. Got a quote or page number? Buckytubes are strong, but they aren't hard. You should be able to cut them with normal steel scissors. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jul 21 2004, 08:52 PM
Post
#33
|
|
|
Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
It was someplace I don't remember it being, I want to say under the nanothingie that makes monowire in SOTA or M&M or the BBB. It's almost positiviely in one of those books, almost.
I am on the other hand absolutely positive I read that, because I remember thingking "Hey! Cray mentioned that on Dumpshock!" :D |
|
|
|
|
Jul 21 2004, 09:45 PM
Post
#34
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 173 Joined: 16-July 04 Member No.: 6,488 |
M&M mentions buckytubes, in quotations, but never calls it carbon. And you can, in fact, cut them with a normal pair of scissors. It's just a Strength (5) test to snap it.
|
|
|
|
|
Jul 21 2004, 09:57 PM
Post
#35
|
|
|
Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
That's what I was thinking of.
|
|
|
|
|
Jul 21 2004, 10:14 PM
Post
#36
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 128 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Winston Salem, NC Member No.: 1,359 |
Buckytubes are, by definition, carbon. Excercise your Google-fu.
|
|
|
|
|
Jul 21 2004, 10:21 PM
Post
#37
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 173 Joined: 16-July 04 Member No.: 6,488 |
I'm pretty sure the term refers to any fullerene(sp?)-shaped arrangement of atoms and molecules. Most are carbon-based, but its not an exclusive term for carbon. But I'm not a physicist or anything.
|
|
|
|
|
Jul 22 2004, 12:26 AM
Post
#38
|
|||
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 9-June 02 Member No.: 2,860 |
Right...boron nitride has been formed into "buckytubes", too. But most "buckytube" and "fullerene" references are to carbon. And in SR, monowire appears to be to carbon buckytubes. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jul 22 2004, 12:31 AM
Post
#39
|
|
|
Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
In some people's games though it's made of pure Unobtanium! :D
|
|
|
|
|
Jul 22 2004, 12:49 AM
Post
#40
|
|||
|
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Not me, I like an unobtanium-absurdium alloy. ~J |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jul 22 2004, 12:52 AM
Post
#41
|
|
|
Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Im protected by such elements by my necklace made of Bovineorbitalism-47. :D
|
|
|
|
|
Jul 22 2004, 01:03 AM
Post
#42
|
|
|
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I used to use a steady supply of misinformatium to defend against those, but all the stocks have been depleted for the past few years.
~J |
|
|
|
|
Jul 22 2004, 05:30 AM
Post
#43
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 83 Joined: 12-February 03 Member No.: 4,083 |
Would unobtainium beat munchkinite?
|
|
|
|
|
Jul 22 2004, 10:55 AM
Post
#44
|
|
|
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
No, but you don't necessarily have to sell your soul to get it.
~J |
|
|
|
|
Jul 22 2004, 03:17 PM
Post
#45
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 236 Joined: 14-March 04 From: Cal Poly: SLO Member No.: 6,155 |
But then, how are you going to stop something infinetly sharp from cutting through your scissors instead? I like the idea of fire to get rid of it though. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jul 22 2004, 03:34 PM
Post
#46
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 173 Joined: 16-July 04 Member No.: 6,488 |
It's not infinitely sharp. It's little more than a really sharp razorblade.
|
|
|
|
|
Jul 22 2004, 03:38 PM
Post
#47
|
|
|
Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
First, it's not infinitely sharp. It's just really sharp. Second, it doesn't have the strength necessary to push through metal, or ceramic, or any really hard substance. It would break first. It is not god. It is sure as HELL not as displayed in Johnny Nmemonic.
|
|
|
|
|
Jul 22 2004, 04:39 PM
Post
#48
|
|
|
Old Man Jones Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,415 Joined: 26-February 02 From: New York Member No.: 1,699 |
So, if I get ceramic bars installed in my armor along where I'm likely to run into monowire, I should be relatively safe?
:) karma |
|
|
|
|
Jul 22 2004, 04:59 PM
Post
#49
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 173 Joined: 16-July 04 Member No.: 6,488 |
Only if it provides Impact armor. There is no "full-proof safeguard" against monowire anymore than there's a "full-proof safeguard" against swords, bullets, or explosives. It's just a different type of damage, and one that can easily be avoided by making a relatively simple Perception(8) test.
|
|
|
|
|
Jul 22 2004, 05:06 PM
Post
#50
|
|||||
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,428 Joined: 9-June 02 Member No.: 2,860 |
Sharpness isn't the first thing to look at. The first material property to check is hardness. For example, if I have an infinitely sharp piece of plastic and attempt to cut a chunk of steel, I'm just going to smear plastic on steel. The atom-thick edge of the plastic blade will buckle and smear before the bonds of the iron atoms break. Carbon buckytubes show about the same transverse hardness (hardness on their side) as graphite. For an everyday comparison, see a chunk of coal or pencil lead. When you try to cut a piece of steel with a really, really sharp chunk of coal, you just get a coal smeared piece of steel. If the cutting material is harder than that of the cut object, then you need to look at several more properties, like the shear strength of the target object and how thick of a cut you're making. All those atomic bonds in the target still have to be severed and moved out of the way no matter how sharp the edge is. In fact, if you know the shear strength of the target and the area of the cut through the object, you can calculate the force needed to cut through it. A sharper edge just lowers the effort wasted on deforming surrounding material, bringing the cutting force to its minimum. Cutting through a foot of steel will take a lot of work no matter how sharp the cutting edge is.
Steel plate, ceramic plate, or heavy gauge steel wire should do fine. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 23rd April 2026 - 05:35 PM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.