What ever happened.., Meta-plot Questions Options

[de4dmeta1]

Ahoy. I was just reading through a few of my books, and I realized that a bunch of the more 'meta-plot-y' developments (the Renraku Arcology Shutdown for example) that I've been considering using at some point probably aren't around anymore, or the problems causing them have been solved, or whatever. So, I'd just like to know what ever happened to the following situations. Which books they were resolved in would be a major plus, as well as timeframe.

1. the Renraku Arcology Shutdown (fairly sure about this one, but don't know any specifics)

2. Bug City (Is the wall still up? Bugs gone? I'm in the dark here)

3. The Yucutan War

4. General Saito's Regime

Can anyone help me here?

[Kagetenshi]

[shadd4d]

1) Deus is gone. See Threats2 and "The network". Essentially, he downloaded himself into people's brains in order to escape.

2) Bugs are supposedly gone. Ares sprayed Strain III over the entire city. See Threats, Target: UCAS, the history in SR3, and MitS.

3) Still going on. See YOTC to see how it's gone from bad to worse.

4) He's still in power. Another Threats2 entry.

That's the books you need to check.

Don

[Fresno Bob]

[de4dmeta1]

Thanks folks, it's appreciated. :grinbig:

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

[Kagetenshi]

He's torquing off a lot of people, and the PCC isn't that far away…

Besides, this can't be good PR for the new Emperor. Can't even control his own generals?

Edit: or his own minor officers, for that matter. Almost forgot that Saito wasn't a general 'till he proclaimed himself one. He has none of the savvy, intelligence, cunning, or even help that survival in his position requires.

~J

[Person 404]

Hmm. I thought there were some hints that he has plenty of the latter, even if none of it's obvious.

[Garland]

I dunno... aren't the more racist Japanacorps supposed to be backing him under the table?

[Kagetenshi]

His assistance: Humanis and their friends, Mitsuhama, Renraku, Shiawase.

His opposition: The PCC, Ares, Orkland and everyone meta-friendly in the area, probably the new Japanese emperor, and, IIRC, the Orange Queen.

The second to last is most important. If he (the emperor) consolidates power and really starts pushing, they're going to drop Saito faster than a pair of burning underpants.

~J

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

That's a big if.

[Kanada Ten]

Protectorate General Saito isn't going anywhere, but he's a toast to all those who hope he dies quietly in his sleep.

The PPC has far too much on its plate already. The takeover of LA overextended their resources and pissed just about everyone, including LA, off. Their own people are unhappy about the merger and the acquisitions haven't paid off yet. Plus Aztlan hasn't dissolved as a threat, rather it's become a wounded animal more likely to strike with chemical weapons if provoked. Even the STC won't back the Pueblos if they move to attack Saito, and the Japanacorps don't really want LA barely enough to push war with the PPC.

Ares is a contender, but it cannot directly attack Saito unless attacked. At least three of the Corporate Court members (Aztechnology, Shiawase, Mitsuhama) have already recognized the California Protectorate as a legitimate government and by law Ares cannot aid in the over throw of said governments. Hell Novatech and Cross won't do anything to help Ares even against Saito, and I highly doubt Saeder-Krupp would do anything but abstain leaving only Waxing and Yamatetsu as allies of the corp. No way will Ares risk a direct fight... yet.

The Emperor, as said, is a great big fraggin' IF.

[tjn]

Saito also only has 25,000 troops to back him up. With no reinforcements to replace those that die. He may recieve tactical and logistical support under the table from the japanacorps, but out and out supplying troops wouldn't be anywhere near as deniable.

If he stayed in SF, he could reasonably hold on to it, but by trying to expand he's overextending and setting himself up for a fall.

As it stands, there's no one there to tip his house of cards over just yet.

[Kanada Ten]

I think he'll start integrating the Californian forces to supplement his own right quick. He's already got Sacramento in his pocket and there's nothing to stop him from using the rest of the Californian military to keep guard on the North and South while he presses East. 25,000 troops with the best equipment money can buy, compared to Ares with their 5,000...

[tjn]

He's the invader; why on earth would the CFS citizenship cooperate?

He just does not have the troops to occupy more then the isolated 'plexes of Sac and SF (leaving him cut off from quick reinforcement from the other 'plex). And Sac's only because they didn't put up a fight and are working on destablizing Saito's regime through underhanded tactics.

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

Because some people like the Japanese there. Every occupied country has its collaborators.

[tjn]

Collaberation would only extend as far as SF.

Anyone who would have agreed with the japanese pov would have already moved there. Anyone who didn't agree with the japanese pov (and there is far more of these then CFS or YotC makes out), but were previous in SF, have been forcibly moved outside of it. Into the territory he's trying to expand into.

Still, whatever collaborators he may garner, is no where near the amount of troops needed to occupy that much high population density land area.

He has SF because of the "purification" process. He has Sac because the politicians rolled over rather then putting up any overt resistance.

Any other land grab is suicide. He just does not have the forces necessary to occupy. Attacking he can do fine. Take the land once the day is won? Hardly.

Saito is a paper tiger.

[Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*]

Perhaps. Someone managed to convince me using the example of the U.S. occupation of Iraq.

Of course, he also relied on the size of the divisions being large enough that they'd have ~40,000 Marines, and not 25k.

[tjn]

Also remember the US only really has to occupy the areas around the Tigris and the Euphrates rivers. There's a lot of land in Iraq with absolutly jack for population density.

[mfb]

i've always assumed that Saito's been importing mercenaries to supplement his forces.

[Garland]

Or recruiting local racists.

[krishcane]

On the Iraq parallel.... California today has 34 million people, and Iraq has 22 million. If you cut out San Diego and Los Angeles to get down to the CFS size, you probably do get a similar population between the two.

However... the average income in CA today is around $35,000 a year. In Iraq, it's between $450 and $600. That makes a big difference in how many guns you can buy, how many mercs you can buy, etc. California residents would be in a much better position to fight back.

Also, if Saito has 25,000 troops or even 40,000 troops.... There are over 140,000 US troops in Iraq, plus around 30,000 more non-US troops. Coalition forces in Iraq have a massive technical and financial advantage over their enemies. And despite that, it would be a stretch to call the situation in Iraq "under control" of coalition forces.

--K.

[Garland]

Saito isn't causing chaos, he's bringing order, which is something the vast majority of the human population in CFS likes. The population is soft and used to the good life (such as it is in 2063) and has been under Japanese/corp supervision for quite a while. They may have a high income, but it's not being shunted to the insurgency trust fund, it's buying food, pricy condos, NERPS, p-sec's, etc. Saito's also got better PR, according to Threats2. It's very easy to just not do anything when the streets are safe, and it's only the metas that have any trouble.

The analogy with Iraq breaks down because the native insurgency isn't acting alone, it's supported by outside influences and presumably money and the local propaganda machines.

[tjn]

[Garland]

If present day diversity justified a lack of racism, there'd be no racism in Seattle, either. That's one of the things, I think, we have to take at face value in SR.

Isn't Humanis just as strong in CFS as anywhere? I think they'd be just as bold, given that some of their goals are already accomplished in SF (metas herded into ghetto). And if Saito can accomplish that, why not help? If it's a contest between who they hate more, the corps or the metas, I think they'd pick the metas to hate on any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

And again, I reiterate, Saito is not just some loon with a private army (well, he is from our standpoint, but...). He's providing a valuable service by keeping the city crime-free. By providing order in a disastrously unstable world, he makes himself a legitimate authority. Contentment with security and complacency will keep the humans in line and maybe even recruit a few who want to do good by their community.