Need help RE combining die pools Options

[The Sandman]

Okay so I have this decker with 10 hacking pool and 3 task pool on the SR Germany MUx. One of the GM's there tells me that I cant use 6 dice from my hacking pool combined with the 3 task to make a total of nice more dice for computer test. I said "where it say that?" he says, "Umm somewhere :) but check dumpshock, its lists the rule and page/book there. So here I am, looking for a point to the right link so I can see if he is wrong or right...the main question being, can I combine die pools that both apply to a roll or is the limit of ALL dice used from more then one die pool maxed at the base skill even if both pools used seperatly dont exceed 6 dice, in this case 6 hacking and 3 task...am I making any sense here? :vegm: :proof:

[JaronK]

Well, if it helps, I know that the encephalon task pool becomes part of your hacking pool.

JaronK

[Ol' Scratch]

Right, the Task Pool from the Encephalon works like that, but that's a special rule unique to it. The one granted by a Cerebral Booster, for instance, has no such stipulation associated with it.

'Course if you have a Task Pool of 3, I'm betting its from a Cerebral Booster 2 and Ecephelon 2, so that means you'll only have an effective Task Pool of 1 while decking. :)

[Apathy]

My response is limited by my lame knowledge of all things matrix-y. But I've always ruled that task pool and hacking pool could be combined, but that you can't use more than your skill in total dice from your pool(s). (I'm sure someone will swoop in and point out the error of my ways, here...)

So if I had 6 dice of hacking pool and 3 dice of task pool, and a computer skill of 7, then I could use all 9 dice during my phases, but no more than 7 on any single computer skill roll.

[Cain]

Okay, here's how the logic usually works. First of all, let's assume you have a Computer skill of 6. The task pool uses the same rules as other dice pools (p. 48, M&M) and then refers you back to p. 43, BBB. On that page and the following, it makes it clear that the most pool dice you can use is equal to the base skill dice in use, whenever skill is a factor. (Thus, you can as many dice as you have for dodging and soak tests, since no skill is involved.)

So, the conclusion drawn is that you cannot use more pool dice than your base skill. If you have Computer 6, you cannot use more than 6 pool dice, from any source. This also acts as a good game-balance mechanism, preventing things like the CED from becoming even worse than they were before.

[BitBasher]

Dice pool used on any one test definitely cannot exceed the base skill, regardless of the number of pools you use. I am however at work and cannot give a page number.

[Apathy]

Dice used on any individual test can't exceed the base skill, but a decker who gets 2 passes per turn could use any of his remaining dice on the second pass, just like the street sam can burn up the remainder of his combat pool on his second (or third, or forth) set of shots in any given turn.

[edit: sorry, just being too literal again]

[BitBasher]

Pretend I said what Apathy said, it's what I meant. ;)

[Cochise]

[Necro Tech]

You can't use task pool while decking at all because you don't have any. It all becomes hacking pool when you are decking. This is pointed out in Matrix under the heading Cyberware that affects decking. I believe you can still soak cybercombat damage with more hacking pool than your BOD but don't quote me on that one.

[mfb]

this question is answered in the FAQ. it's the first question under General Rules, and the answer is that you can never add more total dice from pools to any test than you have in actual skill.

[Cochise]

[mfb]

i am so not going to get into that argument again.

[BitBasher]

In all fairness the FAQ is not eratta. It's not a change to the rules that will show up in a future printing, it's just someone's interpretation of how things should work... and in all fairness they're freaking crackheads about some of their interpretations.

[mfb]

yes, but they're the same crackheads that write the books. if you accept their crack-fiendery when it's in the printed books or the errata, why not when it's in the FAQ?

[Ol' Scratch]

Because the FAQ represents more of an off-hand opinion rather than one that was mulled over in depth and cross-referenced with the rest of the game system to insure that its sound (which, ideally, they do when working on the actual books).

Example: Called Shots bypassing all armor.

[mfb]

i would argue that it's at least as well thought-out as the books are. after all, it was the books that brought us the whole question of bypassing armor to begin with. the FAQ ruling on bypassing armor is no less silly than the book version, and is at least more consistent than the book version.

[Ol' Scratch]

To each their own.

[mfb]

no! you will all submit to my will!

[Cochise]

An example of "well thought through answers":

1. A charactar has Enhanced Articulation and an Reflex Recorder for Edged Weapons. Will he gain on his Off-Hand (Edged Weapons) skill
a) no bonus dice, cause he'll gain 1 : 2 = 0.5 => 0 from the Enhanced Articulation and 1 : 2 = 0.5 => 0 from the Reflex Recorder?
b) one bonus dice, cause he'll gain (1+1) : 2 = 1 dice?
c) no bonus dice, cause a second reflexrecorder is needed for the Off-hand skill?

Frankly, I wouldn't give them a bonus at all, simply because they're already getting the enhanced articulation and reflex recorder bonuses with the primary weapon dice. It seems like too much to increase the bonuses from those implants 150% just because he's using two weapons.

If I had to choose, I would take option B here over A. The question raised by C is interesting, but since the limits of the learned reflex aren't really described, i'm inclined to let it pass.


2. A character has an active Edged Weapon Focus 2 as primary weapon. Will this focus enhance his Off-hand (Edged Weapons) skill with half of its Level or will he only get half the bonus of a Weapon Focus when using it as the secondary weapon?

If he's using the weapon focus as his primary weapon, then the extra dice from the focus wouldn't apply to the off-hand skill at all.

Same with the adept power Improved Ability - will the adept gain half of his level 2 Improved Ability (Edged Weapons) for his Off-hand (Edged Weapons) skill or will he need the power Improved Ability (Off-hand (Edged Weapons)?

I would just give them half, I wouldn't make them buy an additional power.


The second question is less a question than a problem of logic. Shock gloves are listed as a secondary weapon and so you can use it as a primary weapon too. Now a character uses two shock gloves, one as primary and one as secondary weapon. The appropriate skill for shock gloves is Unarmed Combat, so will the approriate skill for the secondary weapon Off-hand (Unarmed Combat). Now we take a charakter with an 8-point Ambidexterity Edge. The paradox situation is that the character suddenly can use 1.5 times his Unarmed Combat skill by just wearing gloves.

To solve this problem I suggest two possibilities. First you'll remove all weapons from the Two Weapon Melee Table which use the unarmed combat skill or second you'll allow to use the Off-hand (unarmed combat) skill respectivly the Ambidexterity Edge without weapons. This should imho be done at minimum via FAQ but better via an Errata.

Yeah, but that's obviously not intended to be allowed. It's really only applicable to shock gloves, and that situation is unclear anyway--is fighting with only one glove the same as fighting with two? The description in SR3 uses "glove" and "gloves" interchangeably. And why the hell would they inflict two damage rolls anyway (punch + shock--why not just combine them)?

Anyway, to get back to your point, all I think we need to say is that you can't get a two weapon bonus by using two shock gloves. That's FAQ material.

--rob

[Ol' Scratch]

Red bad! <waves his hand through the air Frankenstein-style>

Translation: Can you change to an easier to read color? If it has to be red, at least make it darksalmon or something.