Interesting Concept, But is this Moral? Legal? Options

[Moonstone Spider]

Here's a scenario that came to mind recently. Let's take a Shadowrunner, say, Rigger X. Rigger X wants a Rating 5 Robotic Drone with all the cool gadgets. Unfortunately a Drone like that will cost him a cool 3 million Nuyen and Rigger X only has about 300,000 stashed away.

So Rigger X hatches a plan and investigates his target to see who has the kinds of drones he'd like to get. He gathers intelligence during his down time and then hires an actor to play Mr. Johnson for a thousand Nuyen. "Mr. Johnson" hires the team Rigger X runs with (Let's say there's 3 of them including Rigger X) to steal some drones, not prototypes but still advanced models for him. He promises a decent payout of Nuyen (Most of what Rigger X has).

Now Rigger X and his pals invade the megacorp stronghold, steal the drones, and go back to Mr. Johnson. As the rest of the team leaves Rigger X hands Mr. Johnson his thousand Nuyen and they load the drones into Rigger X's van where he'll use his B/R skills to make them unrecognizable to the Corps. Rather than 3 Million for one drone, he's probably stolen several for only a tenth of the price of one.

So, is this an immoral thing for a player to do (working with the GM to boost your character by stealing what you want)? After all, if you tried to convince the other runners on your team to go steal a 3 million dollar drone with you they'd probably want a million each to do it and think that's fair. But if Mr. Johnson offers them 150K to steal one, they'll likely go for it.

[Nath]

I can tell you paying people to steal corporate property is not legal :D

[Arethusa]

Uh, of course it's illegal. You're committing a crime. Unethical? Well, what would you call manipulating the few people who trust you, even if only on a purely professional level?

Really, to pull something like this just to get a good deal on some equipment, the character is either borderline or the roleplayer is not.

[Fygg Nuuton]

sounds like it would work, your team may get upset with you, but if your making them look different to the corp, they wont notice either

[Arethusa]

Get upset with you? You'd better make sure they don't find out or you won't make it to the men's room.

[mfb]

i think he was more talking "game-legal". i can't say it's not game-legal, as i've done the same thing myself.

[Fygg Nuuton]

or tell them after the drone saved there hoop, then they wont mind so much ;)

or hire the actor, then convince them they can make more money selling the drones you don't want, keep your drone, everyone is happy and they feel like theyve gotten away with something

[mfb]

personally, i'd probably just pay the team 150k or so to help me steal the drones. much easier than going through the fake Mr. J hooplah, and less likely to get you drug out into the back alley by your sam and shot, when your team finds out.

[Ol' Scratch]

What's so immoral about setting up a run for yourself? Just make a deal with them; they help you with this one, and then you help each of them with a run of their own. Maybe someone else wants to score a drek-hot SOTA cyberdeck. Maybe another character wants to get revenge on someone who's wronged that character. Maybe another one needs to score an exotic material to enchant a kick-ass focus. Maybe someone else wants to steal a priceless piece of art from the Louvre.

Running for yourselves is one of the coolest things about the game. You just have to make sure your GM is up to it because a lot of them, sadly, are control freaks who refuse to think outside the box they get to create from scratch.

[FlakJacket]

Or do all the research on the facility, plan out how to get in quietly and have contacts on hand to buy the drones once you've liberated them. Then go to the group and say you've got this really easy job for them you've planned, the pice of which is one of the drones you get to keep and the others they can sell off and split the proceeds. Rather than being a bastard that has to keep it quiet or else, you've just become everyone's favourite person.

[Arethusa]

There's nothing wrong with working for yourself (well, not in and of itself, anyway). You run into problems when you need to deceive, cajole, and backstab your teammates to do it. Professional trust is the only meaningful thing in that kind of life; when you give up that, you have nothing left but enemies.

[Ol' Scratch]

The point is that there's no need to deceive, cajole, or backstab your teammates.

[mfb]

unless you've been burned by Judas psychotropic black IC.

[Moirdryd]

Interesting concept. Very interesting concept. I suppose the morality of it all comes down to the char and the team. BTW sounds very similar to what seems to happen in the Shadowrun Illusions short film, for those who`ve seen it.

[Arethusa]

I don't disagree that it's not necessary (or at least not absolutely necessary; naturally, different teams would accept this kind of work differently), but it exactly what this thread started off suggesting, hence pertinence. Rigger X who approaches his teammates and proposes a run in which he's paying is not the same dangerously unhinged psychopath that's willing to ensure his death and stab his coworkers in the back for some hot work-related equipment.

[Pelaka]

Why not just hire your team directly. If they're willing to work for Mr. Johnson I can't see what moral objection they would have for running for you. Also, as best I can tell the actor only gets a $1000 payout in your scheme... all in exchange for risking 20+ years in jail for the various criminal acts your team will enact. Seems to me he has a huge incentive to screw you over. "Hey, Mr. Renaku... this guy wants to pay me for $1000 to hire some shadowrunners to raid your site... do you offer rewards for tips leading to arrests?"

Pel

[Cray74]

[CBrate]

I say run the idea by your GM. Immoral or not, illegal or not, it makes no difference in the shadows.

[Skeptical Clown]

It's only a problem if it causes fights OOC.

[Fu-Man Chu]

[Garland]

I'd be worried that the chronically underpaid "Johnson" would flee to the Caribbean League with the payout.

[Cray74]

[Mr.Platinum]

Sounds like ShadowRun to me.

[Quix]

I've had a GM who never had any difficulty with us taking off and doing things our way, or even things that we made up to do. His claim to pulling this off was that instead of spending alot of time developing a run or adventure. Instead he claimed to just develope the details of the world we interacted with. We apparently thought they went well, those are some of our groups most favorite runs.

[Shev]

I'm going to echo the same question I've seen above: why?

Really, ask your buds to help you make the run, or hire them. Faking a run will only make them not trust you, and people you can trust in the shadows are far too rare to be abused like this.