Urban Brawl, An idea in the works Options

[HolyYakker]

A few friends and I are beginning work on a MOD for the upcoming Half Life 2. We plan on using the Source engine to produce a multiplayer online Urban Brawl. We have a ton of ideas so far, but, the basic game appears to be shaping up to this.

1. There will be character creation similar to that of ShadowRun (though, of course, simplified).
2. Combat will NOT be lethal - we are going to follow Urban Brawl Rules. If you kill someone you are out of the game.
3. There will be purchased CyberWare
4. Eventually we hope to have online league play through a centralized server/website. You will still be able to play on user created servers, but, these central servers will record player and team stats.

So tell me, what do you think is a MUST SEE in this MOD? Please be generous with the ideas, we will simply weed out the ones we don't like and aren't workable.

Thanks guys.

[TimeKeeper]

The only problem I had with this was the fact that you need rather large teams to pull it off.

I had an idea to mod HL1 for UB (even changed the rules around so that it was a choose your class and weapon, then jump in).

But the amount of people I needed to divert from CS made it a daunting task.

If you can send me the rules list from BKK, I can go over what I edited so that it could work as a fast-paced mod.

[Edit]
BKK is Big Knobie Klub. Their website has the "official" rules for Urban Brawl.

[HolyYakker]

We had already given thought to the larger number of players and were planning on two different team sizes (or simply making teams configurable for personal servers). I also planned on drastically reducing certain time elements, making a match 20 minutes with 10 minute halves (instead of quarters) with plays only being two minutes long.

I'll try to get the list of the rules as we were planning on using them out to you. Additionally, when you say that you were planning a mod of this for HL1 did you get to the point where you had a working version or a team together?

Like I said I'll either repost our modified rules, once they are in a more cohesive format or I'll email them to you. In the meantime please feel free to pass on any other info you might have.

EDIT: Related question. Does anyone have the source book information that BKK quotes on their site and would be willing to either scan the selected passages or allow me to borrow said book? I know it's a big favor but I'm a nice guy!

[Beast of Revolut...]

Sounds great. The world needs more cyberpunk mods, and Shadowrun is a great setting. Will deckers, riggers, and mages eventually be included? I would especcially like to see deckers to do stuff like monitor cameras, control doors, and suchlike.[FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial][FONT=Arial]

[HolyYakker]

The idea of putting in deckers and riggers crossed my mind... briefly. The problem with putting in deckers is making the system flow in a multiplay online game. As anyone who has played with deckers in table top knows - the matrix can REALLY slow down your RP, especially if you don't have a full party of deckers.

Riggers again add an element that makes the gameplay extremely complex. One you have to deal with a decker controlling multiple pieces of gear, easy to RP in an initiative turn based systems but rather difficult to do in real time.

Mages we are looking at including in a limited capacity. One reason is that magical healing is not allowed in the Urban Brawl league (as per BKK's rules). The other is it adds a whole other aspect to character creation that would be extremely difficult for a casual user to fully grasp.

As TimeKeeper pointed out - one daunting task is generating a playerbase for this MOD. In order to make it enjoyable for both SR players and SR newbs we need a character creation system that flows rather than one that requires hours of reading.

We are going for halfway point between a game where there is an arduous amount of character creation and a game that you can simply jump into: where the only measure of skill is your ability to master basic tactics and the speed of your pointing and clicking.

[hobgoblin]

i will never understand how people makes decking slow down the game. is in plain black and white in SR3 how you are supposed to integrate a decker into the action, just make damn sure that alternate back and forth. in fact it would be even easyer to pull of in a game like this (in a way, alltho you will need 2 seperate maps so to speak) as the computer does it all and the people on the ground dont have to wait for the decker to complete his turn.

i came to recall that a q3 mod with a very sr feel was ones in the planing stages (the team went on holiday and never returned however). it was no official sr connection however.

allso as i stated in the thread in the main forum, watch out for microsoft as they own fasa interactive and all digital rights to the fasa worlds.

[HolyYakker]

The problem with adding deckers is simply displayed in your post. It is a matter of sequencing. Since this isn't a turn based system but an FPS it will be very hard to accurately portray the speed of the matrix. Additionally, Urban Brawl doesn't really seem to be a place for deckers. In all of my forum reading and site searching I've found no mention of them. Granted the rules I HAVE found are scare, but, still no mention of deckers.

[hobgoblin]

who cares about the speed of the matrix? as long as the decker can jack in somwhere and then run around on a diffrent map there is no need for a speed diffrence. in fact the SR3 rules states that when matrix combat happens things slow down to the equivalent of normal combat, and if the decker isnt in combat and the others are then sr3 define how to handle that to. but for ease of use the decker will have to be onsite and will go into automatic matrix combat the moment he jacks in. the only time you have a speed issue is when a decker does a info search or similar, and in game that is behind the sceens stuff not done as a matrix run unless it part of the story in a do or die way. other times you just have the decker roll up his matrix ettiquete in a similar way to how a face would beat the street for info (or if you need more detail check out the amtrix books). most of the time the decker should be waiting on the rest of the team, not the other way around.

hmm, i didnt connect the title to the sr "sport". well i dont realy see use for anything other then samurai, magicans and adepts (or maybe the odd drone rigger) in a urban brawl setting myself either.

but i still stand on the fact that the idea that deckers eat to mutch of the game time comes down the GM's that play out every infosearch as a net run...

[TimeKeeper]

You never read the rules. There's no need for a character creation system.

All you need is to pick what postion (Light, Medium, Heavy, Outrider, and Medic)
and what your weapons are.

What I had done was nothing coded, but all planned out.
All the weapon choices were balanced, and even had sketches for characters both with and without the ball.

[HolyYakker]

You see, that is missing the point of what we are trying to create is something where you CAN have more control over your character if you choose through a character creation process. There will be premade characters if all you want to do is lock and load.

The ability to customize your character is something that we feel will enhance game play and the community around it. If all you are doing is chosing a class then all we would be making is a version of Team Fortress with slightly different rules.

I'm currently developing the different forms of character creation and I've settled on three methods. One is full control, the other is templated so that certain classes have restricted skill choices to logical selections, the other is what you are describing when you simply pick a type and that's it.

To take out the character creation would really cripple the overall feel that we are going for.

[TimeKeeper]

But then you're not doing an Urban Brawl mod, you're doing a Shadowrun mod.
IIRC not even Drones are allowed to participate in the Brawl, the Outrider only has a Datajack interface, magic is strictly forbidden and decking is pointless (he'll be a sitting target, and one less man carrying a gun).

If you can, find a copy of Shadowbeat or at least look up the Big Knobby Klub website. You're trying too hard for a simple project, really.

I'm just criticing your idea here. You said you wanted Urban Brawl, and I'm telling what the "Official" rules are. If you're adding Magic, Matrix and Rigging, then you're going beyond the Brawlzone.


Here's what I had in mind:
Every player can pick one personal sidearm from a list (mostly Heavy Pistols)
You find melee weapons in the map.
Heavy (and maybe Mediums) can use bigger guns like Shotguns, Rifles and SMGs, but when they have the ball, can only use their sidearm.

The only thing I couldn't think of how to implement was the Outrider's sidecar/backseat. The Outrider is a guy on a bike that can quickly traverse the Brawlzone, however niether him nor his passenger can carry the ball.

Personally, I'm a big fan of KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid). And if you're adding a lot of extras (like character creation) then not only are you making more work for yourself, but for the players as well. Just look at Counter-Strike. Pick a model, grab your gear, run and gun. Simple. Firearms may be a superior mod, but what gets played more?

Hell, now that I think about it, Counter-Strike is basicly Urban Brawl.

[HolyYakker]

We don't want a 'simple' mod. We want in depth character creation. All the Brawlers have character sheets. You mod doesn't take into account Cybernetic Enhancements. And according to the rules on BKK magical healing is forbidden, it never addresses whether or not adepts are allowed to play.

I understand what you were suggestion for your mod. It was simply a glorified Counter Strike or Team Fortress. It is exactly what we are trying to avoid. We are looking to create something where people form teams, honing their skills and tactics.

For many Shadowrun players character creation is an artform. You want it to be nothing more the clinking to pick a position. But there is a difference between a Banger with a 4 in atheletics plus a 2 in pistols and a Banger with a 2 in atheletics and a 4 in pistols.

I understand you advocating simplicity, but you are missing the point. If I wanted to churn out another Counter Strike clone I'd simply do that. But to be honest, CS is simply a game I play when I'm bored. I don't plan to play, I don't look forward to playing it. I want this to be a game where people want to come back because they have a sense of ownership in their character. It is not a faceless blank slate.

I'm sorry that you don't understand that.

[TimeKeeper]

The problem I have with the character creation idea is that once the person leaves the server, that character is gone. I've jumped on some CS mods where they added super-powers and such and while a cool idea, after all the work I put into the character, he was gone once the maps rotated, or the connection was dropped.

I would love to have a personal Brawler, but the above kills the idea for me.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea, but I was looking into something that I felt was truer in scope (and rough scale since I wasn't about to design a map that friggin large) to the original. I wanted the big teams and didn't want to scare away newbies.

If you are going to add creation, make it in a nice interface like Firearms.

[Tal]

With regards to the loss of characters, you could always have the sheets hosted on a server somewhere for online play. Downside is, you'd need one hell of a lot of bandwidth if the mod really took off.

[Tanka]

[TimeKeeper]

Guess I did miss that part.

I still think this is a little too ambitious for a fan project though...

[Wutasumi]

Well, decking COULD be done System Shock 1 style.

(completely different from SS2s if you have played that)

It's fast enough, and works in the setting, you just have to leave a gunner behind to guard deckie so he can hack turrets.

[TimeKeeper]

And that makes a lot more sense, SR-stylewise.
Can it be implemented that way though?

[Wutasumi]

I don't see why not. Just make some custom areas, and a drill weapon and whatever else was used.