New Focus Type, "Adept Power" Focus (need new name...) Options

[GunnerJ]

What I basically wanted was a way to attach adept powers to a focus so that someone who bonds it can access those abilities as if they had the power. This is a very rough idea of how such a thing might work.

Ability Foci

Ability Foci are foci which "store" the powers of an adept into them. Like all foci, they have a force rating. An Ability Focus can "store" (Force/2) Power Points worth of Adept powers in them. (That is, a .5 PP ability would require a Force 1 Ability Focus).

The karma cost to bond an ability focus is (Force*4). The owner of the focus, once it is bonded, can use the powers stored in it as if he/she were an adept with that power, with all the same limitations.

Notes: The Improved Attribute Power costs .5 PP for the purposes of storing it in an Abiltiy Focus.

I'm still sketchy on how to make such a thing (i.e., the enchanting mechanics, how to "put" a power "into" it). Also, I'm aware that for some adept powers, this kind of thing may make Anchoring pointless. IMO, Anchoring is already pretty pointless, and I personally intend to houserule away as much of its lameness as I can, but that is a topic for another thread.

[BitBasher]

Actually anchoring is far from pointless, really. It has a lot of positive uses.

[GunnerJ]

Yeah, but there's also a lot of idiocy (I'm thinking about drain, targeting, and the necessity of re-linking each time a spell is used) that keeps Anchoring from really shining in my eyes.

But again, a topic for another thread. Any thoughts on the new focus?

[RangerJoe]

*activates focus*

"I know kung-fu....better."

[Herald of Verjig...]

For 1 karma and whatever object cost, a human mage can get natural thermographic and flare comp. A better deal than trying to quicken nightvision.

[GunnerJ]

Bonding cost is 4*Force, so it'd be 4 karma.

EDIT: Also, consider that the nuyen cost for foci tends to be pretty damn steap. It's not something you can just brush off when comparing to quickening. Cost tends to scale with the power or usefulness of a focus, and I consider the possibile benefits of this type of focus to be in the same category as a weapon focus or a spell catagory focus. Look up the costs for those, it's definately not something that can be easily looked over.

[GrinderTheTroll]

I like the idea, but how do you "cast" the power on the Adept Focus?

[GunnerJ]

[Jason Farlander]

A variant of this idea that would make sense to me would be, rather than granting wholly new powers, to have the thing simply enhance existing powers. In this way, you dont have to worry about how to add adept powers.

Such a focus would boost any one power by a number of virtual power points equal to F/2. So you cant suddenly gain improved reflexes, but a focus of this type could raise your improved reflexes from level 1 to level 2 if it was a force 2 focus, from level 2 to level 3 if it was a force 4 focus, or from level 1 to level 3 if it was a force 6 focus. The power to be enhanced is chosen when the focus is bonded, and can not be changed without rebonding the focus.

Im not sure how much I would make the thing cost in terms of either karma or money, but I kinda like it.

[GrinderTheTroll]

Another thing to consider, is what if an Adept decides to wear the Adept Focus?

Assuming you got the best deal for Intiations, Grade 6 (+6 Power Points) would cost you almost 100 Good Karma. I think they'd be getting a huge bonus for little Karma cost you have proposed initially of Force*4.

Maybe the multiplier would increase based on the number and rating of powers so something like 4*(Highest Force + # of Powers) or so.

This post has been edited by GrinderTheTroll: Aug 25 2004, 11:09 PM

[tjn]

Psst, Grinder, it's Force/2 for power points. A Force 6 is equivilent to only three grades.

But grades are an imperfect comparison. Not only due to the varying costs due to groups and ordeals, but the varying benefits and drawbacks (higher magic is a bad thing for Adepts).

I think the BBB's adept advancement of 20 karma per PP would be a better evaluator for balance since neither a focus or these power points affect the magic rating and there is a linear cost for improvement.

As such, the Focus effectively acts as a Talisman geasa. IMO that would qualify it for the 75% reduction to 15 Karma per power point. As one power point constitutes two points of force, we divide that in half. 7.5 karma per point.

Another point for balance considerations is the monitary cost of the focus. If a goodly amount, the karma cost per force should go down.

Last thing that pops into my mind as a point of contention for balance: who can use the focus? If anyone magically active can utilize the focus, then it should cost more then what an Adept has to pay, simply for the fact it is walking over Adepts' toes. But if limited to only Adepts, it should cost less karma investure to make it an attractive alternative.

Okay, one more thing, honest. Focus Addiction should be vigorously enforced with this item. This does two things, if normal mages can use them, it limits the amount of toe treading. And secondly, if it's made to be attractive to normal Adepts, prevents them from looking like Liberace both astrally and on the mundane plane of existance. And helps curb munchkins.

[TheScamp]

Also note that the adept is still limited to power ratings equal to their Magic attribute. While this might not be an issue with things like Killing Hands or Reflexes, it will make a difference for a lot of powers, such as Improved Abilities or Attributes.

[mfb]

this sounds familiar. i prefer the seperate Somatic and Ability foci.

[GunnerJ]

Wow, lots of good points I totally missed. tjn summed up a lot of this best. I'm going to tweak the karma costs so that it doesn't become a replacement for "normal" power point gaining. And yes, the cost in nuyen is big. It's up there with weapon foci and specific spell category foci; somewhere near Force * :nuyen: 80,000 should be about right. These foci aren't minor purchases, in fact, I imagine these being more like very hard to obtain loot or something given as a reward.

Anyone magically active can bond these foci. However, cost and rarity make logic such as: "Hey, why bother with Path of the Magician? Just play a regular mage and buy an Ability Focus"" roughly equivalent to thinking: "Hey, why bother initiating? I'll just buy a Power Focus." And yes, Focus Addiction is a must.

[mfb]

jesus, anyone with magical ability can use these? uh, i don't like that at all. sorcerers who pick up a spirit focus can't summon spirits with it; no way should Joe Anymage be able to pick up a focus and get Killing Hands.

[GunnerJ]

[mfb]

yes, of course they should. astral combat is an integral part of pretty much every magical tradition. anchoring has nothing at all to do with the person activating the focus, and everything to do with someone who already has sorcery as part of his/her purview. adept powers are unique and, more importantly, incredibly potent if the GM doesn't carefully monitor their use.

[GunnerJ]

[mfb]

well, yes, it's true that it's up to the GM to moderate the game. if i post a Kill Suckers In One Hit focus, it wouldn't really be my fault if someone's game became unbalanced through the use of it. however, it'd be kinda pointless to post it here on Dumpshock if i didn't want people to be able to use it without breaking their game.

anchoring foci remain tied to the mage that created them--when you use an anchored spell, the mage it's tied to has to resist drain right then and there. if the anchoring mage dies, your anchoring focus is useless. your Ability Focus doesn't seem to be tied to the adept who created it. the anchoring focus, in other words, has some strongly-defined limits; the Ability Focus does not, and with adepts, a lack of limits is a bad thing.

[Digital Heroin]

[Wireknight]

Your focus is far too abusable in its current state. For ~48 good karma, which is admittedly not something to sneeze at, one could purchase 6 power points of various "Ability Foci" and effectively be an uninitiated adept, in addition to whatever other magical tradition they've chosen. Let's look at an example here, with a full magician, shaman, or wujen doing just what I've suggested above.

Since a magician adept would require 12 power points, or 6 Initiate Grades, to have both a full starting magician's magic rating/abilities and a full starting adept's magic rating/powers, which costs at the very least ~75 good karma(magical group plus ordeal), someone is saving 27 good karma, at the very least(most likely much more), and adopting all the abilities of an ostensibly seperate type of magical ability while doing so. To be less optimistic, if the initiations are unassisted and without ordeals, the cost is ~150 good karma, resulting in a net savings of an astounding 102 good karma.

(This is not mentioning the fact that they'd have started with far less spell points and would still be unable to astrally project, as they'd have metamagics which would most likely balance that downside. Let's not get into the nitty-gritty details of that and derail things.)

This means that 12 rating points of this focus, say a force 2 Killing Hands focus, a force 6 Improved Reflexes focus, a force 3 Pain Resistance focus, and a force 1 Improved Quickness focus(a fairly routine starting adept layout) are saving the user at least 27, at most 102, and an average of ~65 good karma. That averages to ~6 good karma per force point.

As a result, the cost and availability of such a focus should be astronomical(or there should only be one or two, low-rating, and unique foci rather than a codeified type), and that still doesn't really address the balance issue, since no matter how much something costs, someone will still get their hands on it.

I mean, if we went into the argument that it's not the rules creator's role to consider balance, because high costs/availability balance obscene power, why does move-by-wire, an insanely expensive piece of 'ware with commensurate increases in character ability, still have debilitating side-effects that no amount of cash-money can do away with?

Anyhow, that's my two cents. I like this "Wireknight" fellow's Somatic and Ability foci, myself. That man is a genius. If he weren't me, and such marriages weren't illegal, well... let's not talk about that anymore.

[tjn]

Wireknight? Those "nitty-gritty" details that derail the comparison between initiation and foci are a bit bigger then you make it out to be. The grand canyon and my cup of ramen next to me can be compared if one glosses over enough "nitty-gritty" details.

Fundamentally, increases in grade have a exponential cost unlike increases in foci, which have a linear cost. That detail alone makes the comparison invalid. In addition the initiations of an Adept of the Magician's Way are inheriantly borked, which precludes them from being set as any standard of balance in the first place.

While yes it's a bit karmicly light atm to allow any mage to bond, the costs nuyen-wise that GunnerJ's put forth would put it into the realm of either forcing the character to sell his soul in character creation and severally gimp himself to become a crappy Adept of the Magician's Path who can project, or squarely into a high power campaign in which the GM is already balancing high power levels.

Double the karma cost to 8 per force, and it's about bang on. One need not demand a player's first born for what would amount to be a simple trinket in all but a munchkin's hand. Magic characters already are karmic black holes, so adding yet another option for them to spend their precious, precious, karma is inheirantly balanced against all of their other karmic demands, so long as the GM isn't Monty Haul.

[GunnerJ]

[GunnerJ]

[Dashifen]

Another way to limit the availability of the item might be require the link between the adept and the focus (as above). This link could be used for ritual sorcery, tracking, etc. which is going to make such items rare as not many adepts with the ability to make them would be willing to leave a trace of themselves out there for all to have. Would initiating and changing your astral signature invalidate these ritual links?

I would say the enchanting process could also be an adept-only metamagic if you want to. This would further limit characters from creating such foci and trying to sell them for cash. Granted, if they do, the astral link between the focus and themselves is certainly something a savvy GM can use to their disadvantage 8).

The reason I think a metamagic would apply is this: since normal enchanting requires a mage to cast a spell "into" a focus, an adept probably couldn't follow the normal echanting process because their Somatic way focuses magic internally rather than externally. Therefore, the metamagic would be something that an Adept could learn that would allow that external projection of their powers. Call it Aural Expansion or something like that. Then, the process is simply to have the "unpowered" focus on the adepts person for a base amout of time (divided by successes on an enchanting test) and the metamagic would allow the adept to place their powers into the focus.

Also, while this may have been implied above, an adept should only be able to charge such a focus with powers they have. Maybe an astral quest could provide they the ability to charge a focus with a different power or a ritual enchanting process of other adepts could act similarly.