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[Suenert]

How did you implement P2P-networks in your game ?
In the course of creating a decker I have started to thing about how rules for them have to look, problem is my expierence with them is limited.
This is what I got:

Description

P2P are described by:

open or closed
Open: anyone can download the client and partiscipate
closed: invitation only

Quality rating
The amount and quality of software which is accessible to an user.

Reputation rating
Your standing with the network, nobodies likes a leecher.

Ratio U/D rating
The ratio which describes how much you have to up/download to change your standing.

Downloading
- first make a roll quality against availibility to determine of the programm you are looking for is to be found in the network
- second step the GM rolls quality to determine the bug factor, if you roll only ones the programm is infested with a worm (choice of the SL)
- write down the value (price inclusive street index) of the downloaded programm

Uploading
. make a quality roll against the availibility of the program you are uploading, if you fail write down the value of the programm

Reputation
At the end of every month divide the sum of the values of all downloaded programms by the sum of the values of all uploaded programms, round up.
Substract this value from the ratio for the network, and add the resulting value to your reputation.

If you reputation is zero you get booted from it, if it is a closed one.
If the network is open, the quality is capped by the reputation (bandwidth is hocked by people with an higher reputation).

Open networks should in general have a low quality value.

Suggestions, criticism ?

[Siege]

Ya know, it's amazing but I've never seen this issue come up in any game I've played in.

-Siege

[mfb]

i'd simply make them another form of search operation.

[Kanada Ten]

IMO, peer to peer networks are no different than any other host in Shadowrun. Which means they are Blue-2/2/2/2/2/2 unless you implement some kinds of secure OS and security programs.

[Edward]

On a related note what files are available free. I am talking about decker utilities and such like witch are ether pirated and distributed or written by deckers and distributed for all to use under some form of general public licence.

I would have assumed that such things would exist (they are conmen now if you know where to look) but are not available for balance reasons. If you did allow them you would probably have to say they where at least 1 step behind SOTA or where written in some way poorly (bug ridden flaw).

Edward

[FlakJacket]

Plus if you write or come into ownership of a programme that you can sell for large amounts of money, you don't just give it away. At least most people don't.

[Kagetenshi]

Given that the zeitgeist in Shadowrun is very extremely far from freedom of information, I find it hard to believe that anything worthwhile will be on P2P networks.

Though I have considered allowing something like a 1d6 roll for anything off of a P2P network. If the host is blue, a 1 will immediately trigger an Active Alert and trigger all IC that would normally be triggered, though the security tally is not raised; a Green, a 1 or 2, a Yellow, a 1, 2, or 3, and a Red a 1, 2, 3, or 4.

~J

[BitBasher]

Also, I believe P2P netowrks can't really exist in SR the way they exist today because of the hardware paradigm shift. A cyberdeck is NOT a host and cannot IICR be used as one. Hosts are prohibitevely expensive unlike today where any desktop PC can make a servicable host within reason.

[GrinderTheTroll]

Intersting idea, but I'm siding with Flakjacket on this one.

[Kanada Ten]

[Jason Farlander]

[Edward]

I very much doubt that pear to pear networking would exist. Far to traceable over the matrix as your terminal doesn’t have the ability to run any IC or other security software of relevance.

Something similar to modern wearz sites however would be associated with many data havens. Shadow land probably has a significant archive of programmes that have been pirated or written by its contributors. Many people don’t have a problem distributing something that people will pay good money for free if they don’t have a way to sell it. Why to you think it is that you can now download almost any piece of commercial software of the net including cracks for the anty piracy protections.

The only reason I would not have such a thing working is because even if I had every piece of software on there poorly written and bug written and 1-3 steps behind the SOTA it would still make deckers overpowered.

Edward

[Kanada Ten]

[Kagetenshi]

I see there being two completely different types of problems with shadow-P2P networks, both of which would be sufficient to kill them almost completely.

First, for the open-source stuff: see my rules above. Corps analyze the code, rewrite their stuff to make it ineffective. A wide-scale open-source decking community would merely serve to dramatically increase the difficulty in decking effectively.

Second, for closed-source stuff: bugs, worms, virus payloads up to and including psychotropics, not a few of which would be corp-planted…

~J

[Edward]

If it is practical to analyse source code and render a program completely ineffective then every purchased program would have to have its writing corp recorded and any system maintained by that corp (or some of its allies) would be completely immune. You would need to ether write all your own programs or by it twice from different manufacturers that don’t like each other.

Edward

[mfb]

heh, maybe that explains the insanely high program costs--they're actually the price for two or more seperate progs!

i have to disagree with kagetenshi. it's not like corp deckers can't login to Hacker House and buy copies of every program they sell, rendering Hacker House completely ineffective. and if Shadowland and the Nexus can exist without filling every user that logs on with worms, so can P2P networks.

that said, i don't see P2P networks carrying any programs with a rating higher than 4 or so, and most of the programs would have lots of bugs.

[Kanada Ten]

Exactly, informal networks like this are like scrapyards to Riggers. They help with the building blocks, but it still takes a competent decker to repair them and upgrade them to SotA. At the costs of programs and the time investments for upgrades, I don't see this as unbalancing for established characters. Long search times and lots of debugging (let's face it, deckers could make a fortune selling fifteen rating one programs in the time required to make one rating 8).

[Suenert]

[Kagetenshi]

Point.

Though purchasing programs does tend to be more expensive than just downloading them.

~J

[audun]

Let's face it: the SR Matrix rules have nothing in common with reality. It's a fantasy world, with different rules than ours. The whole concept behind them was designed in the 80s, without even the idea of a net similar to the one we have today.
Shadowland is a BBS, not a website.
Now for keeping consistency, here's some suggestions:
- assume that deckers buy their software from limited access warez nodes. Or their fixer buy it from such a node.
- assume that DRM-systems are in effect, and does work. Prevents most P2P-networking.
- assume that software patents are in effect and prevents large scale open-source programming.
- actually in real-life, there was a suggestion in the recent FTAA proposal to ban P2P-networks outright. Assume that this has happened in the SR (fits the cyberpunk theme) and that the deckers prefer warez nodes for security reasons.

[SunRunner]

[GrinderTheTroll]

[Necro Tech]

[Kagetenshi]

In Matrix it is stated that all programs have the source and that buying object-only programs results in a .75 multiplier to the price, IIRC.

~J

[Necro Tech]

Thanks, I just couldn't find it and I thought I might have been thinking of 2nd edition stuff. You got a page number?