Magician's aquiring Adept power points?, Adept paths: Path of the Magician Options

[Espiritu]

In MITS there is a Path of the Magician where an Adept at creation spends Power points to aquire magical abilities as a Hermetic or Shamanistic Magician.

My question is based on that rule on Pg 22 of MITS. They can't access Astral Projection unless purchased as an Adept power nor can they pay 20 Karma to get more Power points. Can anyone sugest a potential way for a Full Magician to purchase into Adept powers following a similar concept after character creation?

This is in regards to my character suddenly turning into a Drake and I want to give him a little physical focus on the Drake Form as apposed to the Magical nature of my metahuman form.

Several ideas I have is that the Adept powers could only be accessible in Drake Form or that I could simply go with Initiation buying me a Power Point like Adepts normally do it...but this completely breaks the Path of the Magician and provides my way as more advantageous which is bad because I DO Astrally Project already.

This could have worked if I had known I was going to be a Drake before hand, but I didn't so I couldn't start on the Path of the Magician....now can someone help me develope a Path of the Adept? ^_^

[Backgammon]

If I understand correctly, you want a Mage to buy Adept powers. Well, according to the rules, you can't. Anything aside from that, you'll have to work out with your GM.

[Espiritu]

Figured...you'd think they would have put something out there for the eventuality. Thanks.

[Herald of Verjig...]

Magicians way adepts can't buy astral projection, and need to buy astral perception to use it unless dual natured.

IIRC, drakes are already dual natured, so you don't need to buy astral perception.

The 20 karma for a power point is overruled by the initiation rules, also in MitS.

What, exactly, are you trying to do that you don't think you can?

[Espiritu]

Based on the Magicians Way for Adepts I don't see a proper conversion to providing an already Shadowrunning Full Magician, PhysAdept Powers after the fact.

Magicans Way Adepts can't under any circumstances purchase Astral Projection?

I am trying to find any means possible to giving a Full Magician, PhysAdept powers after character generation.

[Siege]

You can't, period.

Magic is a matter of birth - you're born (created) as one of the following:

1. Physical Adept
2. Hermetic Mage
3. Shaman
4. Aspected mage/shaman
5. Magician Way Adept (Physical Mage)

By canon, you cannot acquire magical powers in mid-game. You could buy magical powers at creation and have them "manifest" during the story, if you wanted to simulate a PC suddenly Awakening.

-Siege

[Kanada Ten]

Well, if you limit it to Drake form only, you might convince your GM that they amount to Innate paracritter powers. I don't think it's unreasonable to say 20 Karma per Adept Power point. However, as a GM I would rule these are feral, instinctual powers that supersede Magical abilities (meaning I wouldn't let you cast spells in Drake form).

Magical Adepts cannot Astrally Project without an Astral Rift or Portal.

[Nemo]

Not only Drake magican Adepts get Astral Perception by their Dual Nature, Shapeshifters and Ghouls do the same. But Drake Magican Adepts are the only ones that can use Astral Projection like full Magicans (as PC's), Shapeshifters and Ghouls can do so only as NPC's (p.5 Critters)

[Espiritu]

Nemo can you site from what pages you read that Drakes can Astral Project as Adepts?

Was it in the critters book?

[Sphynx]

Espiritu: Check out my Submission to TSS. It gives my alternative Build Point system. Probably a little late to use now, but you can do a Path of the Adept through it rather easily.

Sphynx

[Nemo]

@Espiritu
On Page 5 of the Critters is stated that a Dual-natured being with Magical Skills is able of Astral Projection. A Drake in Drake-form is Dual-natured, and if he is a magican Adept (or any other form of not full magican) he qualify for that (as a NPC, PC's are no Critters), and in Dot6W or Threats 2 it is said that any magical active Drake can astrally project in either Form (Human and Drake)

[Moon-Hawk]

Your ideas intrigue me. I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
You're gonna need to give us a page number on that last bit, I think.

Man, if this works, how could I have missed it?

[Espiritu]

[Kanada Ten]

Here you go:

[ Spoiler ]

Replacement Rules for Magic
It is recommended that starting characters be limited to a maximum of 25% of starting Building Points to be spent on Magic during character creation (including Building Points gained from purchasing Flaws).

Magical Ability Cost: 5
This is the basis of all Magic, to perform magic in any manner at all, even for the simplest things such as Astral Perception, you must first buy this. Once purchased, the following categories are also available for purchase. You start with 1 Magic Point that may be raised with the Magic Point option listed below.

Magic Cost: 1 per level
Every level of it gives you an increase to your Magic attribute by 1 point. This may only be bought to a Magic Rating of 6, any further increases require the Initiation listed below. Any loss of Essence at Character Generation, such as Cyberware installation will reduce your Magic Rating by the amount of Essence lost.

Magic Points Cost: 1 per level
This gives the purchaser a number of Karma points to bond foci, learn spells, conjure starting spirits, initiate and any other magical purchase where Karma is used to purchase. The number of Magic Points gained in this manner is 5 per level, maximum of 50 points.

Astral Perception Cost: 2

Astral Projection Cost: 3
To purchase Astral Projection you must first purchase Astral Perception. A Dual Natured player does not need to purchase Astral Perception for this purchase.

Mana Manipulation: 2
This allows you to purchase levels in Conjuring and Sorcery as fits your character. Without this purchase you may not purchase even the first levels in those abilities. You must choose a tradition upon purchase such as Shamanic or Hermetic. This is all you need to be able to use Enchanting type skills.

Sorcery Cost: 1, 2 or 4
If you have purchased the Mana Manipulation listed above, you may take multiple levels in this Power. This purchase is available in 3 levels. The first level is the most rudimentary level with the basic understanding of Magic allowing a player's character to use his Sorcery and Spell Pool for Defense Dice, Dispelling and other non-casting uses of Sorcery, such as teaching an Ally Spirit. The 2nd level allows the player's character to cast spells from only 1 category. Any character with a Shamanic Totem may purchase the 2nd level to be allowed to cast spells from their totem which may include more than one category, the Totem disadvantages compensate for the additional categories. The 3rd level allows a player to cast spells from any category.

Conjuring Cost: 1, 2 or 4
If you have purchased the Mana Manipulation listed above, you may take multiple levels in this Power. This purchase is available in 3 levels. The first level includes the most basic understanding of conjuring spirits allowing a person to conjure Watchers and Banish spirits. The 2nd level is the minimum allowed to conjure an Ally. At the 2nd level the character may conjure one type of spirit from their tradition. As with Sorcery, any character with a Shamanic Totem may purchase the 2nd level to be allowed to conjure spirits from their totem which may include more than one category, the Totem disadvantages compensate for the additional categories. The 3rd level allows a character to conjure any spirit type of their tradition. This can also be purchased to conjure spirit types outside of your tradition at double the cost as it would be to conjure the same number of categories within your tradition. Ie: For 12 BP a Shamanic Type could conjure all 4 Elemental type of spirits.

Mana Focus: 3
This allows you to purchase levels of Adept Magic. Without this purchase, you may not start with any Adept powers.

Adept Magic Cost: 2 to 4 points per level
If you have purchased the Mana Focus listed above, you may take multiple levels in this Power. Each Power Point costs 2 BP up to your Magic Rating. Every point past your Magic Rating costs 4 BP. The Magical Power listed in the book Magic in the Shadows is not available for purchase through this system.

Optional BP Expenditures for games that allow you to start Initiated, instead of spending initial Spell Points on Initiation.
Initiation Cost: 3, 7, 12, 18, 25 points.
Each level of this grants you an extra Magic rating point via Initiation. As a player you may choose if you belong to a group, did ordeals, ignored ordeals, or went solo. Choice does not change the BP cost of Initiation. Each level is incrementally more expensive than the level before it so a GM could easily extend this cost to allow higher initiations by continueing the Increment.

Initiatory Group: 1 point.
This allows a character to start the game already initiated into a group. It does not alter the BP costs for Initiation at Character Generation.

MetaTechnique Cost: 1 point per Tech
This may be purchased up to the level of Initiation one has achieved. Each level grants the character a Meta Technique from the books.

Failed MetaTechnique: -1 point per Tech
This may be purchased up to the level of Initiation one has achieved. Each level prevents the character from ever learning a technique listed in the book.

Resources
BP Nuyen
-5 500
-4 1000
-3 2000
-2 3000
-1 4000

0 5000
1 7500
2 10000
3 12500
4 15000
5 20000

6 30000
7 40000
8 50000
9 70000
10 90000

11 110000
12 130000
13 150000
14 175000
15 200000

16 225000
17 250000
18 300000
19 350000
20 400000

21 450000
22 500000
23 550000
24 600000
25 650000

26 700000
27 750000
28 800000
29 900000
30 1000000

[Espiritu]

That is a wicked design for Building Points, but it didn't really provide any answers to my question. I need a way to have a Magician become Mage Adept without retarding the Magicians previous skills.

You have several logic loops in the system. Like Adept power point costs and Astral Perception. Once you've bought up to your Magic level in Power points they cost 4...well it's cheaper at that point to buy Magic Ability(5) then Astral Perception(2) for 7 total then to buy two Power points past 6 for 4BP each totally 8...they save BP1 with some progressive engineering.

[Herald of Verjig...]

[BitBasher]

[Nemo]

@Espiritu

The Proof of the Drake Magician Adepts ability to astrally project are:

Dot6W p.184, Section "Metahuman Form", second paragraph, third sentence
" Drakes with magical skills can also astrally project like magicians in either humanoid or dragon form."

also

Same page, Section "Drake Abilities", first sentence
"As awakened creatures, drakes have certain innate magical abilities, which generally work as given in Shadowrun, Third Edition and Critters."

Same page, Section "Metahuman Form", second paragraph, first sentence
"Drakes in dracoform are dual beings,..."

Critters, p.5, Section "Dual Beings", third paragraph, first and second sentence
"Dual beings with magical skills are capable of astral projection. They can separate their astral bodies, just as do full magicians."

Dot6W p.184, Section "Magical Skills", first paragraph, last sentence
"Drakes with the ability to astrally project can do so in either form."

Threats 2 p.80, Section "Drake Abilities",fourth paragraph, last sentence
"Drakes with the ability to astrally project can do so in either form."

Conclusion: Magician Adepts posses magical abilities, so a Drake Magician Adept posses the ability of astral projection, in either humanoid and dragon form.

[RedmondLarry]

Nice work, Nemo. Well researched and well pesented.

[Espiritu]

Yes I agree. He PM'ed me but I'll say it again here.

Thanks Nemo, that aided several decisions I was trying to make. And essentially made it easier to decid to "convert" my magical presense as MageAdept. Since by Drake rules I was always a drake and always able to astrally project because of it and by the Path of the Wheel with Mage Adepts I could simply not have purchased any Adept power points yet. And since I'm not initiated yet I havn't broken any rules but those percieved in the background and on my character sheet.

All hail Nemo master of the See (I told you so)!

^_^ Peace.

[Moon-Hawk]

Great work, Nemo. If only we could all post like that.
Of course, then we couldn't argue about we-don't-even-know-what for pages on end, and what fun would that be? :huh:

[mfb]

that also goes for adepts with Centering. huzzah!

[Nemo]

@ OurTeam, Moon-Hawk,Espiritu
Thanks

@mfb
Give the Adept Sorcery (only if he has Astral Perception, but that is for Dual beings no problem), than it is without any question. But be aware, that these is only possible for PC-Drakes and NPC-Dual-beings, not for PC-Shapeshifters and PC-Ghouls. The SR-Compendium Third Edition stats for these two, that they can only astrally Project, if they are full magicians.

I'm at work, so I have no access to the books and can't quote.

Edit:
After Rereading the Rules: Only Shapeshifters are the exception of the Rule.

[Wireknight]

In one of the custom metamagic rules systems I've seen, magicians with certain very high prerequisites can learn the metamagic "adeptness", which grants them 1 point of adept powers. They can gain up to 6 points through this, require at least 10 initiate grades to purchase the power, and must have some other fairly high prerequisites.

On the other hand, adeptness may be purchased by an adept who has suffered magic loss due to cyberware, bioware, damage, etc... up to their original base magic rating of 6(i.e. if they lost 2 points they could buy 2) with much lower prerequisites than a magician attempting it.

I think it's an interesting idea.

[Siege]

Level 10 initiates, eh?

-Siege