SOTA: 2064 Magic, Technology and Beauty, NIP Tuck 2060's Options

[kryton]

With the level surgical precision, prosthetics, and enhancements theoretically anyone with enough money could buy the face and body they desire. Cybernetics requires a good deal of patching and connecting of human tissue and synthetic materials. People now pay thousands of dollars for cosmetic surgery I wonder what SOTA work could be performed 2064. With magic augmenting healing and manipulating the human form it would see that you could look just like anyone. With the proper enhancements you could sound like anyone. With simsense and memory manipulation you could have memories customized. Possibly advance therapy might include manipulating negative memories and reshaping the human psyche. (Babylon 5 expanded on Death of Personality for Serial Killers.)

It would make sense that with the advanced procedures for DNA enhancement and cybernetic surgery that anyone could buy the perfect body. With the creation of Alice in Jak Koke's first heart of the dragon series it may even be possible to project a personality and memories into a harvested human clone. So you not only don't die you pass your mind on from generation to generation. If you don't like the way you look you have a new body either sculpted or if you’re squeamish about blades genetic enhancement would be available. If street docs are as prevalent as they are then conceivably plastic surgery could become more and more accessible to the middle class. (Unfortunately I would think that there would be a larger class gap between the middle class and upper class folks.)

I think these are interesting ideas. The book Holy Fire might become a reality where folks wanting to be young again can go from they're 80's to 20's. So I think the key question is "What would the perfect person look like?" How would the starlets and jet setters define the perfection? Is age the biggest taboo in 2060? How much would someone pay or give of themself (in this case a middle american girl) to get the perfect body and form?

[mfb]

leonization already accomplishes in one swell, easy foop what the age doctors in Holy Fire sweated blood and tears to create a poor reflection of. on the plastic surgery front, i tend to think that from the middle class on up, there are no un-beautiful people. it's probably one of the things that keeps the classes so very seperate--no one with any amount of legitimacy would put up with unsightly acne scars, bad teeth, tendencies toward obesity, etcetera.

personally, i think the lifestyle you live in (not your various safehouses/boltholes/whatever) should give a TN mod on social interations.

[kryton]

Leonization works but it cuts into essence. There's also a chance it could go wrong and the side effects could be nasty. I think body sculpting from a surgical sense would never go away. Genetics can do a lot but when genetics fail your surgeon would take over where science failed. Surgery is a art form and merge between science and skill. Some folks simply won't want to get genetic manipulation. Untill we know how aging works fully the surgeon's scapel or laser will always be there for the well to do.

[Backgammon]

Interesting post.

First off, there is a general consensus that sentient clones are a non-reality in SR. because of the huge implications they would have. The SR world would be too radically altered. Armies of cloned superhumans, people that never really die...

But I definatly agree that a "looks" gap should be introduced in SR. With the terrible city air, acid rain, bad hygene, etc, the lower class people would not only look not as good as the upper class people, who I totally agree would all look gorgeous, but they'd look like shit because of the effect all that pollution has on their skin.

Looks are part of the gap in classes in a society. Considering the cyberpunkish theme of class gaps, the looks of the poor vs the looks of the good, and the jealousy (sp?) that is created by this shoudl be brought up. Lower classes would be VERY resentful of the upper classes who create all the polution but don't have to suffer it's (visible) effect.

Furthermore, on the topic of changing what you look like, that's a subject I think SR material hasn't put forward enough. It's often mentionned in fiction or shadowtalk, how when a run goes sour you change your face and get a new identity. But you don't see it in the rules much, you don't see many examples of it, what the consequences (loss of self-indentity maybe?) are, etc. M&M says a few things about plastic surgery, but more complete material should clarify the face change quesion. It's too late now, but SSG would have been a GREAT place to put that in.

[Fygg Nuuton]

[Kanada Ten]

In SR, cosmetic surgery can be performed by a tattoo artist.

[kryton]

True it is a science but the artistic ability I think requires extreme amounts of hand eye coordination and precision. The same sort of precision and skill a painter or sculpter might have. Flesh is the canvas.

If Leonization involves a virus vector then it can fail. Viruses mutate and do all sorts of things unexpected. Nanites could theoretically repair and fix the cell but the DNA would have to have to be manipulated by some sort of vector. Free radicals and maybe even the body's own white blood cells might retard or impact leonization. Anthing biological is at risk to random effects. Medicine is science but the body as an organism has a level of chance. The body is such a complex medium chance is always a factor. Drug trials for instance test possible side effects for drugs after they're deemed safe for clinical use. People die and have unexpected reactions. I think medicine as a whole will always have a level of unpredictability of side effects. Complexity can be understood but not always predicted. That's ultimately my point.

[Cray74]

[kryton]

Possibly with robotics and automation surgery could move into the "expert system" level of production. The machine is programmed and expert systems may do the work for you using nanites and microsurgical techniques with percision and skill exceeding surgeons. Nanites are the ultimate micro level surgical machine. Possibly machines then act as assembly line surgeons. Imput body here, upload medical - cad file, remove human at end of bay. The russians use a form of assembly surgery or experiemented on it in the 80's. Machines may take the place of men with a doctor acting more as a computer operator / tech. Then all you need is the right machinery and any fool able to push a button can perform surgery. I just hope it doesn't run windows....that could get messy.

"General Protection at location x3223110 in executable surgery.exe.......Errror patient viatals dropping please contact Doc Wagon....Warning.......massive blood loss detected....reboot?"

I heard from a co-workers brother during a bar crawl of a patient waking up from brain surgery. Turns out the anasthiethology (msp?) machine crashed and stopped giving gas to the patient. That had to be a surprise and a head ache.

[kryton]

The book Stanger souls talked about consiouness transfer. It was fairly potent but required a magically active person and some use of magic. So it's at least bleeding edge and buggy but possible.

[Cray74]

[Kagetenshi]

Depends. If the original brain is not carried over, it has the potential to be very different indeed.

~J

[Jason Farlander]

[Kanada Ten]

To me, cloning a mage wouldn't guaranteed that the clone would Awaken. In fact, if SR allowed cloning (which it doesn't), I would probably say clones would be less likely to Awaken because they are processed material and thus not virgin (same goes for anything grown in a test tube). It's not impossible mind you, just more difficult.

[Cray74]

[Edward]

The tech seems to be there for brain transplants (the amount of neural work needed would be modest compared to cerebral boosters, encefelerons, move by wire, riger implants).

So what are the costs associated with transplanting your brain into a physically fit clone of you at any given age. Thus only diseases of the brain can really affect you.

Has the Programmable ASIST Biofeedback unitprogressed to the point where you can copy your memory and personality thus escaping every ailment other than psychological. and what happens to the spirit (pre-existing essence loss, magical talent).

If you are cloned (no genetic mod what will the clones magic rating be (same as you, none, random individual) might a rich mundane be able to clone himself 1000 times have each one cheeked for magical talent and use a PAB to transfer his conchesnus into it.

Edward

[Kanada Ten]

Magical Talent isn't in the body. It's in the Essence.

[edit] Meaning you'd have to let the clone develope as a person and see if it developes magical talent and then try to convince/force it to allow the transfer (and if it has magical talent from a totem that won't work).

This post has been edited by Kanada Ten: Sep 2 2004, 12:19 AM

[Cray74]

[Kanada Ten]

[Cray74]

[Jason Farlander]

[Kanada Ten]

[Jason Farlander]

Anyway, its all academic insofar as a) its a game and b) in said game, clones are not sentient. I merely posit that, perhaps, one of the reasons they chose to make human clones mindless may have been because they didn't want to deal with the possibility of mage clone armies. *shrugs*

[Kanada Ten]

[Kagetenshi]