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> Invisibility and lasers, ...um, inisibility and lasers...
Jonah
post Sep 4 2004, 02:07 AM
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:wobble:
Invisibility makes you invisible to sensors as well as the metahuman eye...
Does this include security lasers (trip beams etc). You still have a physical presence but you are refracting light (and fooling sensors).

And if you can go through a security laser what happen when shot with a laser weapon (damd, they all use photons)??

Just curious on other peoples ideas or if there are rules for it (i've looked but cannae find any)
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Kagetenshi
post Sep 4 2004, 02:11 AM
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setvar canOfWorms open

If you want laser transparency, best to recreate Improved Invis as a Manipulation. II has a lot of inconsistencies regarding questions like this.

~J
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RedmondLarry
post Sep 4 2004, 02:41 AM
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It's magic. The way it works physically is not described in the books. There will be people here who make up a self-consistent physical way for the magic to work, and will argue with other people who come up with different self-consistent physical ways for it to work.

In the end, final authority for your campaign is the GM.

My take is that you hurt when shot by a laser, but the magic will make it appear the laser comes out the other side. Only that illusion of a laser won't be damaging. I don't know whether the illusion of a laser sensor will be good enough for you to pass through.
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JaronK
post Sep 4 2004, 03:17 AM
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Remember it's an illusion spell, not a manipulation. So while you would trip laser sensors (the illusion makes the sensor think it wasn't tripped), you'd feel the burn from lasers (the illusion would make it look like the laser went right through you, but you'd still be hurt).

JaronK
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Glyph
post Sep 4 2004, 03:31 AM
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Actually, the way illusions work is described in the book. They don't have a hologram-like effect, but rather, they affect the mind (mana illusions), or create false sensory input (physical illusions).

An invisibility spell would spoof a trip laser (but remember, the spell's Force has to be equal to at least half of the Object Resistance of the sensor to affect it). It would not, however, protect against a laser attack.
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Kagetenshi
post Sep 4 2004, 03:43 AM
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What about a diffraction/bounced light trip laser?

~J
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Necro Tech
post Sep 4 2004, 03:49 AM
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Doesn't matter. Magic has the catch all ability to fool machines. Hell, drone sensors include a whole ton of toys and tricks and the spells fools all of them all the time. A sensor will believe anything you tell it because it simply lacks the ability to know better. As long as the sensor can't measure weight or volume, you will be safe.
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Kagetenshi
post Sep 4 2004, 04:08 AM
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No, actually, the spells almost never fool them because the spells almost never account for radar, ultrasound, and all of the other tricks a drone has up its sleeves.

Illusions are primarily useful against passive sensor tests, and mostly useless against active sensor tests. Don't bring up the FAQ, because as usual it seems to have been written during a bad acid trip.

~J
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Cain
post Sep 4 2004, 06:48 AM
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He's only referring to individual sensors, not Drone Sensor suites. Against a simple laser network, Improved Invis works just fine (assuming the force is high enough). Naturally, any place worth a damn is going to have it backed up with something else-- pressure pads, noise detectors, nightingale floors, and so on.

And don't discount runner stupidity. I had one guy who went trapising across a Zen sand garden while invisible, and then wondered why the Sentry guns opened up on him...
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Edward
post Sep 4 2004, 10:51 PM
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invisibility by refraction dose not work as I have explained in other game systems and fictional worlds. If you are refracting light around your eyes are not receiving any light and you will be totally blind.

As for the effect of a laser weapon remember you cant see a laser beam so if the laser was to heart you and the spell was to make an illusion of it leaving you then it would not be visible so why bother.

It will not protect you from any attack laser or otherwise but it will fool any method of detecting you with visible light laser or otherwise. It is magic. By definition it dose not obey the laws of physics as we understand them.

The interesting question is will the spell protect you from a high or low frequency laser tripwire. Radar is EM just like visible light but improved invisibility wont protect you from it.

Edward
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Kagetenshi
post Sep 4 2004, 10:54 PM
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QUOTE (Edward)
invisibility by refraction dose not work as I have explained in other game systems and fictional worlds. If you are refracting light around your eyes are not receiving any light and you will be totally blind.

iD Software already came up with an easy fix for this. Check out someone wearing the Ring of Shadows in Quake 1.

~J
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Moon-Hawk
post Sep 7 2004, 07:33 PM
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UNLESS the light coming in toward your eyes is refracted around you while, at the same time, an image of what is coming in is created on the "inside" of the illusion in front of your eyes!
Or, OR, it's just magical chameleon cloaking, and the spell creates an illusion of the other side of you over you, which doesn't prohibit any light from coming in.
Or, or, OR, OR....oh frag it, just do whatever your GM says. Or design a manipulation version of invisibility.

Many spells can be designed in more than one category. They just end up being a lot easier to succeed and resist drain in one over the other. For example, some health spells could be redesigned as manipulation spells, but the TNs would end up higher, and so would the drain. It's not beyond the realm of possibility for a shaman or some type of aspected caster to try to duplicate spells in other categories, though. Just less efficient.
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The Question Man
post Sep 7 2004, 08:40 PM
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Definitely a Can O Worms question. As a GM I would rule that Improverd Invisibility makes you transparent to Lasers period.

But that's just me

QM
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Rev
post Sep 8 2004, 06:41 PM
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QUOTE (OurTeam)
My take is that you hurt when shot by a laser, but the magic will make it appear the laser comes out the other side. Only that illusion of a laser won't be damaging. I don't know whether the illusion of a laser sensor will be good enough for you to pass through.

I don't think invisibility needs to be that powerfull.

If I, using ultrasound vision, shoot you with an arrow while you are invisible I think it is just fine if all the regular people standing around see the arrow just vanish as it sticks in you and is covered by the spell.

If I hit you with an axe others standing around don't see me miss, they see me hit nothing.

Any other weapon ought to work the same way.

As for the light beam trip wire it is up to the gm to decide whether that counts as vision. I happen to like to encourage cleverness so I would say yes, but I find the opposite answer entirely reasonable as well.
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