 PDF versions?, Will there ever be any? |
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 Sep 11 2004, 06:45 AM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 37 Joined: 9-September 04 Member No.: 6,640  |
Is fanpro going to ever release the SR books on PDF for downloads like so many game companies are doing now a days?
This makes it TONS easier to play. I'm not having to drag around twenty different books, just my laptop. |
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Sep 11 2004, 06:52 AM
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#2
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Target Group: Members Posts: 3 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,044 |
I think there was some mention at GenCon about this, that Fanpro was in the process of working out a deal with www.drivethrurpg.com
I'm pretty psyched about that, when/if it does happen. |
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Sep 11 2004, 10:52 AM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 673 Joined: 30-March 04 Member No.: 6,206 |
There currently exists PDFs of almost all SR 2nd and 3rd edition books, even nearly-impossible-to-find ones like Universal Brotherhood.
They're all low-quality illegal scans, of course. |
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Sep 11 2004, 10:43 AM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 236 Joined: 14-March 04 From: Cal Poly: SLO Member No.: 6,155 |
Yes. Last time I checked all but 8 books were available as pdf's. Some of them are really poor quality, some are actually quite good, especially the newer ones that include pdf indexing. Since the forum doesn't want me too, I won't say where you can find them, but their worth it. My groups use them all the time, and they make wonderful thankyou gifts to GM's you play with at conventions (put on a dvd).
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Sep 11 2004, 12:28 PM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 122 Joined: 1-September 04 Member No.: 6,621 |
All of which, it should be noted, is illegal, unless you have Fanpro and/or FASA's explicit permission. |
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Sep 11 2004, 03:25 PM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 236 Joined: 14-March 04 From: Cal Poly: SLO Member No.: 6,155 |
Which is why everyone in the group has hardcopy versions as well. Also, most of those books are out of print and no longer sold by fanpro, and could fall under the fourth factor of Fair Use.
Books on pdf that are still in print are illegal, true. So watch what books you get. |
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Sep 11 2004, 03:48 PM
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#7
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Target Group: Members Posts: 37 Joined: 9-September 04 Member No.: 6,640 |
All I want are leagle downloads of the current books. Hell, I'll pay full price if they would put them up somewhere. Carrying my laptop is a helluva lot easier than carrying a sixty pound book bag, a dry erase mat, and all my mini's around to a game. What a pain in the rear.
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Sep 11 2004, 04:24 PM
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#8
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,012 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Unless you made the copy from your book, the PDF is illegal regardless of ownership of the same book title and regardless of the print status. Fair Use does not apply. ~J |
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Sep 11 2004, 04:26 PM
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#9
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Senior GM Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,406 Joined: 12-April 03 From: Redmond, WA Member No.: 4,442 |
No, it's not fair use to make copies of materials which are no longer in print. Sorry. Such action would reduce the value of the legal copies currently owned, and reduce the marketplace the copyright holder might have for making a new printing. /Edit: Kage is right, and types faster. |
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Sep 11 2004, 06:20 PM
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#10
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,840 Joined: 24-July 02 From: Lubbock, TX Member No.: 3,024 |
So, if I can prove that I own the old book, can I get a discount on the pdf?
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Sep 11 2004, 06:23 PM
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#11
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587 |
It would be a rather mean spirited compony that pressed copyright charges against you for downloading an illegal PDF of a book you already own. I have a similar policy for my books. I actually use the paper ones at game but never Cary them up to my apartment. They live in the car. I would take a laptop to games but that would mean spending $1000+ on a laptop. Although it may be technically illegal I don’t believe they are sufficiently mean spirited to prosecute. Similar to the anime music videos that are distributed on the net (ok the music companies want to do something because people get the howl song but last I cheeked the owners of the anime copyrights couldn’t care less.) I think even at there most narky the music lets people of with MP3s of tracks they have on CD when they didn’t rip it themselves.
Edward |
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Sep 11 2004, 06:30 PM
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#12
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Old Man Jones Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,415 Joined: 26-February 02 From: New York Member No.: 1,699 |
I'd hope that they figured out better digital rights security, then. A crack for Adobe's DRM system was posted around, what, 48 hours after it was released? -karma |
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Sep 11 2004, 07:02 PM
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#13
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Prime Runner Group: Retired Admins Posts: 3,929 Joined: 26-February 02 From: .ca Member No.: 51 |
No. FanPro has not yet set a pricing structure for their eBook releases, but Rob mumbled something about the $5-15 range for many products. |
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Sep 11 2004, 07:20 PM
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#14
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Target Group: Members Posts: 37 Joined: 9-September 04 Member No.: 6,640 |
15 bucks would be cool. Hopefully they will get the ball rolling on this VERY soon.
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Sep 11 2004, 11:07 PM
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#15
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,840 Joined: 24-July 02 From: Lubbock, TX Member No.: 3,024 |
15 bucks isn't all that cool. Seeing how for all but the very rare books (UB, Lone Star, RA: Shutdown) sell in physical form for less then that.
Personally, if the dang books are OOP and won't ever be printed again, sell em for a flat 5 bucks. |
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Sep 11 2004, 11:52 PM
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#16
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Shooting Target Group: Retired Admins Posts: 1,784 Joined: 28-July 04 From: Cleveland, OH Member No.: 6,522 |
Adam talked about this at the GenCon Fanpro talk. They're working on a deal with Drivethrurpg.com as others have mentioned. I got the impression that the hold up was actually on the WizKids end, not the Drivethrurpg.com end, but I may be completely misinterpreting what he said.
I specifically asked about pricepoints for the old books. The number that they threw out was $10-15, and they'd definitely be DRM'd. I'm less than thrilled about both the DRM aspect, and that high of a pricepoint for books that they don't intend to reprint. But ... I'll probably still buy several of them. The one PDF only item specifically mentioned was a "Map book." Basically, they'd take all the maps from modules, Sprawl Sites, and any other sourcebooks, and compile 'em into one big PDF so that you could just print out a map as needed, and use it for a night's run. This seemed like a *very* cool and useful idea to me. |
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Sep 12 2004, 12:34 AM
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#17
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,001 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Michigan Member No.: 1,514 |
I'd have Rob's babies for PDF's.
The hard way. |
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Sep 12 2004, 12:44 AM
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#18
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Urgh. <<flashback to Hellblazer: Son of Man>> I didn't need that, Paul.
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Sep 12 2004, 12:45 AM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 122 Joined: 1-September 04 Member No.: 6,621 |
You are right, they probably wouldn't force the issue, at least if all you were making were copies of the OOP books and were not selling them (but that is not what was being said...they were talking about ALL the books). Although they would be perfectly within their rights to do so. However, just because they don't sue you does not make it any less wrong. And, I don't know what the deal was with FASA/FanPro, but it may be that the older FASA books are still owned by FASA, which may or may not mean Microsoft, and they would sue you, your group mates, your family, friends, ancestors, pets and future progeny... |
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Sep 12 2004, 01:39 AM
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#20
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Grumpy Old Ork Decker Group: Admin Posts: 3,794 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orwell, Ohio Member No.: 50 |
Couple notes...
Maybe in your opinion. You're in the minority there, for the most part. If people wanted those books, they'd have them and there would be no interest at all in old PDF's. The fact is they're not that easy top find, and even when they are, people don't want to carry around a copy of every book in existance. If they can put that on their computer though, it might be wrth toting around. ANd so far the consensus is that most people feel that's worth 10 to 15 bucks per book. Don't forget you're still dealing with licensing fees, someone to go through and clean up and convert these books to PDF (Many of the old books aren;t even in a readable electronic format these days, form what I've heard), and Drive Thru RPG's fees for selling the books. And, that brings us to pint number two...
I'm quoting this cause it was convenient, but it applies to everyone discussing this situation... 1) It doesn't matter if you own the book or not. Fair Use applies only to making copies of limited amounts of the book for personal use... Like copying a few charts, tables, or a spell list. Not copying the entire damn book. 2) If it comes to Fanpro or WIzkids attention that someone has their books available for download in illegal PDF version, whether or not they're being sold, they absolutely have to enforce their copyright. Otherwise this sets a precedent, and they lose some legal legs to stand on. Fanpro doesn;t actively pursue this issue, espeically right now since there aren;t PDF versions afvailable, but... That might change in the future once they do, and like I said, if it came to their attention and they had a direct source, they would have to take action. Otheriwse, a couple weeks or months down the road, if someone else decides to post their stuff very publically, maybe even seling it, and Fanpro decides to take action, it can be pointed out that they didn;t enforce their copyright in an earlier situation, and this could end up with FanPro being unable to do anything about it. Copyright is a really tricky situation, and some people enforce it much more strictly than others in an effort to be "better safe than sorry", but... <shrug> It's the way it works. 3) I really don;t give a rats ass if you posessess illegally copied material. It happens, it's a fact, though I personally think it sucks and people who do these things may as well go steal the books from someone. <shrug> Whatever. But... Don;t discuss it here. Period. That's always been a banned topic, and always will be. Whether you agree or disagree isn;t the issue. THere are other places to discuss it, but dumpshock isn;t one of them. Bull |
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Sep 12 2004, 02:56 AM
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#21
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,012 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
This is partially correct. I'm not sure if it falls under the Fair Use clause or some other part, but one is legally allowed to make a complete copy for backup purposes. They're just not allowed to share it with anyone, nor are they allowed to use as a backup any copy generated from a book they don't possess (and by book, I mean the specific unique physical copy they own, not all printings of that title). However, for this purpose, and indeed for nearly all purposes, the point is academic. ~J |
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Sep 12 2004, 03:17 AM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 109 Joined: 29-March 03 From: Tir Tarngiere Member No.: 4,353 |
I have to agree here. The way that Adobe configures their DRM has made it extremely difficult for me to download and install their DRM stuff. And the way DriveThruRPG.com sets things up, if I (or a family member) accidently deletes the file, or if the file is on a computer without a Zip Drive or a CD burner (like my current temporary computer is), then I can't download it. And worst of all, you cannot install the DRM software if you run Linux (and, IIRC, if you use a Mac). All in all, if FanPro was using, say RPGNow.com, I wouldn't have a problem. Same if DriveThruRPG or Adobe handles their DRM differently. As it is, I'm going to have to refrain from purchasing any Shadowrun E-Books. |
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Sep 12 2004, 03:26 AM
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#23
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,012 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
It does work with OSX, as I confirmed a few months back with one of their free sample books.
~J |
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Sep 12 2004, 03:34 AM
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#24
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Prime Runner Group: Retired Admins Posts: 3,929 Joined: 26-February 02 From: .ca Member No.: 51 |
Certainly works on a Mac. :)
I would recommend sending your comments about DRM to DriveThruRPG, then. They have an obvious interest in growing their customer base. |
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Sep 12 2004, 04:05 PM
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#25
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Target Group: Members Posts: 3 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,044 |
Can't say I know much about DRM. But that just seems to be the natural order of things: You make a better code, someone makes a better code crack. And just for the record, i'd pay full (original) price for most of the OOP books, just to be able to read 'em. So $15 to me is a dang good deal. |
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