When the Spirit Hits the Fan..., ...and you're a mundane without a mage. Options

[FrostyNSO]

Ok, I wanted to start this up to see how other people deal with spirits when they're mundane.

Are there any effective ways to battle spirits, other than having to go hand to hand (the force of will thing) or having to deal with immunity (normal weapons)? How have you dealt with them in the past? Have any cool ideas, but just havn't gotten to try them?

[Chance359]

Elemental damage works well.

[Herald of Verjig...]

Throw the dwarf. Even better if it's a gnome. Then someone else gets in a melee contest of wills, and dwarf-kin are just stubborn enough (and usually deckers or riggers when mundane) to win against any spirit you are supposed to have a chance against.

[mfb]

get a stick. willpower is not a weapon skill, so non-proficiency doesn't apply. pick up a pole, or anything else that's handy and long, and start swinging. you get reach mods, it gets no CP, you win.

[Krieger]

I've had the most luck with mfb's strategy. Well, really only once, but it worked well. Besides, it's usually the most plausible, since you can use just about anything.

[mfb]

i play an adept. they all laughed at me, when i took the Focus Will manuever. but i showed them! went swimming, got into a tangle with a water spirit, and whupped its ass in hand-to-hand even though i lacked any underwater skizzles. i was pleased.

[FrostyNSO]

Hmmmm... don't see using a stick really helping unless it is a focused stick? Care to elaborate?

So far it would seem that a flamethrower is the best bet?

[Krieger]

mfb, that's very impressive. I've considered using that maneuver for a Tai Chi master, aspected Conjurer. The image I got in my head from that - a tiny chinese guy in Tai Chi garb assuming one of the forms with an Eastern Dragon (looking) spirit curled around his body - just seemed too good to pass up. Unfortunately, I did pass it up, and never actually made the character. Shigata ga nai, neh?

Oh... sorry to get off topic... uh, beat 'em with a stick, yes.

...

*runs away*

[mfb]

check SR3 pg 188, second column, first paragraph, 4th and 5th sentences. reach mods apply to any weapon you use in a force-of-wills contest. however, since you're not actually required to use a weapon skill, defaulting mods don't apply. ergo, you can pick up a big stick and wave it around drunkenly, giving yourself a reach of 1 or 2, and using your willpower as your combat skill.

[FrostyNSO]

Hmmm..ok. So elemental effects (flamethrowers anyone?) and big sticks...there has to be something else. What about toxins??

[xizor]

what about using a really strange weapon to get around the immunity to normal weapons? :D

[toturi]

Yes, a mean otaku dwarf(stick is optional) or a taser or a laser or a water cannon or...

[Kagetenshi]

[mfb]

spirits have immunity to toxins.

[toturi]

[mfb]

your crimes against man and pun do not escape the notice of our lord, heathen.

[mintcar]

It is my experience that most characters will beat a medium force spirit any day of the week, since willpower is such a useful attribute to most characters (combat pool is all I say). Last time this happened was parodical (insect spirits are supposed to be scary!). I really must throw higher force spirits at my players in the future.

Is it really fair that a force 4 spirit should have no chance beating a mundane with will 6? Maybe so. Im just going to have to reallise that Im going to have to pump the force up to 6+ to make it scary.

This ties in to a general problem I have in my game right now. In years past Ive been using only a bare minimum of the rules and storytelling most of the action. Especially when it comes to rigging, decking and magic. It hasnt been interesting to me to weigh down my game with complicated rules and options in every situation. A few years ago I started about changing all that. I bought every book and learned every rule best I could. And I made nice sheets with the most important rules so my players had an easy reference while we played. The players have caught on by now and they´ve started about using their characters to their advantage like never before. This has resulted in that they quadrupled their efficiancy, leaving all the opposition panting in their footsteps. I never realised just how mighty a decker really is in the matrix, or how good a magican is in astral form. Its gonna take a while finding the gameballance again.

[Zeel De Mort]

Well, obviously if there was an easy way for any old mundanes to kill spirits every idiot would be doing it.

However if you're going for the contest of wills thing - as has been stated picking up a 2m object and using it as a weapon is definitely the way forward. It's also a good time to switch on your pain editor, activate that adrenal pump, and fire in a few combat drugs. That and the mandatory willpower 6 should do the trick.

Other options include being REALLY strong and having a dikoted katana or similar. Again the adrenal pump and combat drugs help out here, but you can add at least +12 to your strength via those and the katana, if you're desperate enough. If you're already a big strong street sam to begin with, that should take care of the majority of pesky spirits. Assuming you have a great big katana skill as well, of course!

Explosives are also good if you can get a chance to lay them out. A few claymore mines in a confined space should do it. Failing that, air-timed minigrenades galore.

Finally, for a more novel approach, you might want to pick up a metahuman and use him as an improvised weapon. See what rules your GM will cook up for that. It's certainly not a Normal Weapon..

[Dashifen]

Tasers and other shock weapons are electrical damage. Hence they beat immunity to normal weapons. Shock hands work, too. Good for people who don't want to get in close :)

[sidartha]

[Zeel De Mort]

Heh. Well, true. But the highest power taser in the game does 10S. At best you can hurt a Force 9 spirit with that, which isn't bad. But you'd need to be a REALLY good shot to do it any damage. I somehow doubt spirits would succumb to the stunning effect of it.

Still, at least if you're not mega strong and carrying assault cannons and missile launchers etc, you can use those and have some chance of success rather than none.


Oh also, use the charge option and wield your katana two-handed (yes I know the debate about that) for another +2 power. :)

Or get a solid metal spear and have it dikoted and charge with that. Or are you only looking for sensible suggestions here?

[Clyde]

Tasers. Cheap, available ranged weapon. They frag spirits up to Force 8 in the actual games I have run. Big D's Temper Shells (if you don't mind ruining a burst fire shotgun, you can fire lots of them). Incendiary rounds do some fire damage.

Or shell out the money for your own bound elemental guardian :)

[mfb]

ack, you can use Big D shells in burst-fire? that's ridiculous. another example of the kind of insanity i will outlaw, when i am elected Emperor of All.

[Kagetenshi]

Ah, the joys of not having rules for rounds that don't generate enough pressure to cycle a semi-auto gun.

~J