Drakes and Killing Hands - Dumpshock Forums

Drakes and Killing Hands, I know! I ask tons of strange questions

Espiritu View Member Profile	Sep 14 2004, 04:26 PM Post #1
Target Group: Members Posts: 73 Joined: 27-August 04 Member No.: 6,604	A new dilemma, my drake half(split personality of Espiritu) is an adept. I may just learn killing hands but there is a fundamental drawback. Drakes have a natural Str(M) damage which isn't stun...they have claws and teeth. To purchase Deadly Hands it takes .5 to do Light damage, 1 for Medium, 2 for Serious and 4 for Deadly. Can I get your thoughts about how I am supposed to purchase this when right off I have to spend 1 point initially that does nothing for my damage output? One consideration I've had is to stage up the damage a little further up then just Medium but before it's at serious. Or...just begin my damage codes at Medium and have Light be 1 more box above medium, and Medium be at Serious, and Serious be at Deadly? (Problem is now Deadly doesn't have to be purchased and conceivably could add additional power to the defenders TN.)

Tanka View Member Profile	Sep 14 2004, 04:29 PM Post #2
Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715	IIRC, you can choose not to use Killing Hands. So, just purchase it and don't activate it until you have KH(S).

Botch View Member Profile	Sep 14 2004, 04:31 PM Post #3
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 486 Joined: 4-August 04 From: Fomorian Wastes Member No.: 6,538	Killing hands is a magical blow, just have to live with the fact that at level 1 it sucks. Adepts with bonelacing face the same problem.

Espiritu View Member Profile	Sep 14 2004, 04:38 PM Post #4
Target Group: Members Posts: 73 Joined: 27-August 04 Member No.: 6,604	I was going to go with that it was wrending claws... Same reason I have the Improved Bash(correct power?) to collapse barriers. It just seems apt to a drake/dragon template I'm making of him and that his claws were just that sharp and strong. All my Adept powers are going towards fleshing out very dragon like qualities in the character. This character is going the long way of Rp so I'm trying to develope some method to give him above medium combat prowess(without cheesing on the Improved initiative and Skill Focus) to start just so he's not a complete pushover. The Drake form as a personality will have no skills of his own...well...I did forget about the Flame Tongue innate power..lol

BitBasher View Member Profile	Sep 14 2004, 04:54 PM Post #5
Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220	Just suck up the fact that you have to buy it at S. There's absolutely no reason that you should get added bonuses because you're already a Drake! Yeesh!

Espiritu View Member Profile	Sep 14 2004, 05:15 PM Post #6
Target Group: Members Posts: 73 Joined: 27-August 04 Member No.: 6,604	You are correct BitBasher and I guess It can't hurt to suck it up the loss of a few points, it only balances out the character more since it did originate outside of Character Generation rules(IE I didn't spend anything to get here, it was placed on me.) :D Combining another question inside this one. Does the Flame Tongue Innate Spell damage of a Drake increase with Initiation? That a lvl 3 initiate would have 9 "essense" based on Critter power rules the damage would be a Force 9 right?

Apathy

Sep 14 2004, 05:21 PM

Post #7

Running Target

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QUOTE

Does the Flame Tongue Innate Spell damage of a Drake increase with Initiation?
That a lvl 3 initiate would have 9 "essense" based on Critter power rules the damage would be a Force 9 right?

Critters that have essence (i.e. not spirits) use their essence not their magic rating to determine the power rating of their magical abilities. So no, you'd only have a Flame Tongue attack power equal to your essence (6), not equal to your magic rating (9).

If you happened to be a level 10 initiate with 5 points of cyberware (essence = 1), your flame attack would have a power of 1, not 11.

Espiritu View Member Profile	Sep 14 2004, 05:29 PM Post #8
Target Group: Members Posts: 73 Joined: 27-August 04 Member No.: 6,604	I was under the impression Initiation also improved your essence rating...does it not? And I just realized something...Killing Hands IS a magical enhancement therefore any type of underlying damage should be applicable to the enhancing factors of Killing Hands since the power is mystically based as apposed to physically...so the claws on the Drake should still be rending flesh while Killing hands does it's extra harm right? (Read the next question as it has everything to do with this entire notion.) As I understand it Stun damage is overruled by Lethal damage... What is the rule to Lethal damage being improved by Lethal damage? This last question for sheer mechanics and canon is what I wish to know. (OH and don't "Sheesh" me... I know what I'm doing. When I am taking multiple personality disorders with my metahuman half and my Drake half being seperate minds and having to use the same Karma pool to increase both and having no control over which is active at any given time... I'm taking one to the jugular for RP because that damn drake half is going to be the most skillless, unworldly SOB I've ever had to play as. ^_~)

BitBasher

Sep 14 2004, 05:35 PM

Post #9

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QUOTE

I was under the impression Initiation also improved your essence rating...does it not?

OH HELL NO. Not in a million years, no, naught, nein. NO. By canon essence never raises. Never. Ever. Never ever. Never make it. never ever make it. Never ever never make it.

QUOTE

And I just realized something...Killing Hands IS a magical enhancement therefore any type of underlying damage should be applicable to the enhancing factors of Killing Hands since the power is mystically based as apposed to physically..

No, it's only an enhancement if what you had before was worse. If you have 5 bucks, trading that in for 10 bucks is an enhancement. If you have 20 bucks, trading it in for 10 bucks is stupid, don't do that.

QUOTE

As I understand it Stun damage is overruled by Lethal damage...

Where did you get that idea? Stun and lethal are cumulative.

QUOTE

What is the rule to Lethal damage being improved by Lethal damage?

I have no idea what you mean by that. Steel coating your iron pipe to beat people with? doesn't change the damage. Killing hands is NOT a +x type of damage, it's a flat type. It's not str plus something, it's just a wound level. It's not stackable in the way you want in canon.

Austere Emancipa...

Sep 14 2004, 05:36 PM

Post #10

Great Dragon

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QUOTE (Espiritu)

I was under the impression Initiation also improved your essence rating...does it not?

It absolutely does not. That would lead to some really fucked up situations. For example, those Immortal Elves could stuff every piece of cyber- and bioware known to man inside themselves without any ill effects.

[Edit]BitBasher said it better.[/Edit]

This post has been edited by Austere Emancipator: Sep 14 2004, 05:37 PM

Espiritu

Sep 14 2004, 05:38 PM

Post #11

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THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU! I was telling my GM this over and over and finally folded... I knew it was borked beyond all hell. I gave him that example that Awakened could out cyber anyone anyday if that were the case.

Thus why I have "Sensitive System" to dissuade me from taking advantage of that understanding at the time.

Austere Emancipator

QUOTE

It absolutely does not. That would lead to some really fucked up situations. For example, those Immortal Elves could stuff every piece of cyber- and bioware known to man inside themselves without any ill effects.

Lol no Ill effects? If they had that much bioware in them I'd say that poke them with a needle and watch as every biosystem begins failing catastrophically on them. ^_^

BitBasher View Member Profile	Sep 14 2004, 05:44 PM Post #12
Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220	Quotes are always better when a little paraphrased Kung Pow: Enter The Fist is thrown in :D And harlequin would have in the "upper double digits" plus 6 essence if that were the case. He could have every piece of cyber known to man and still have 50 plus essence minimum. :P

Espiritu View Member Profile	Sep 14 2004, 05:47 PM Post #13
Target Group: Members Posts: 73 Joined: 27-August 04 Member No.: 6,604	What the heck is "Kung Pow: Enter the Fist paraphrasing suppose to be?

BitBasher View Member Profile	Sep 14 2004, 05:48 PM Post #14
Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220	That would be paraphrasing a line from the very very silly movie "Kung Pow: Enter The Fist" :grinbig:

Espiritu View Member Profile	Sep 14 2004, 05:50 PM Post #15
Target Group: Members Posts: 73 Joined: 27-August 04 Member No.: 6,604	Suddenly realized what movie that was...but..still have no idea how that came to pass as being something to say... Unless I've just accidently paraphrased that movie? lol

Austere Emancipa...

Sep 14 2004, 05:53 PM

Post #16

Great Dragon

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QUOTE (Espiritu)

Lol no Ill effects? If they had that much bioware in them I'd say that poke them with a needle and watch as every biosystem begins failing catastrophically on them. ^_^

The Power of all diseases, toxins and other compounds would be pretty high, but then he'd also be immune to most of them, his ware would reduce the Power back to around the original figures, and he'd have a shitload of dice against them. Healing might take a while, though.

BitBasher

Sep 14 2004, 05:55 PM

Post #17

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QUOTE (Espiritu)

Suddenly realized what movie that was...but..still have no idea how that came to pass as being something to say... Unless I've just accidently paraphrased that movie? lol

No, *I* Paraphrased that movie! :D

Kagetenshi

Sep 14 2004, 06:05 PM

Post #18

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QUOTE (BitBasher @ Sep 14 2004, 12:44 PM)

And harlequin would have in the "upper double digits" plus 6 essence if that were the case. He could have every piece of cyber known to man and still have 50 plus essence minimum. :P

Er, wow. I just realized that "upper double digits" doesn't mean "between 15 and 20" as I'd somehow previously managed to think.

Well, I guess I can stop assuming that normal humans will almost never get past initiate grade 8 or so. (Not that they will commonly, but it'll actually be something a non-godlike character could do)

~J

BitBasher View Member Profile	Sep 14 2004, 06:25 PM Post #19
Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220	Yeah, Upper Double Digits is above "Mid Double Digits" which I would say is 40-60 or so. I personally put Harlequin's Grade anywhere in the 70-80's. Of course, if you do the math, that's only a fraction of the Karma he should have earned. It's scary really.

Herald of Verjig... Herald of Verjigorm View Member Profile	Sep 14 2004, 06:31 PM Post #20
Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017	He also has a very high edged weapons skill, and about enough sorcery dice to fill a chateu. That's not even touching on whatever other skills he mastered in the mean time, just looking at some skills he is shown to use.

toturi View Member Profile	Sep 14 2004, 09:21 PM Post #21
Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187	Back to the topic, I don't really see the problem with a drake get Killing Hands: L. The drake can either use KH:L or his normal attack in drake form. Remember, that KH:L is going to be useful if someone has Immunity: Normal Weapons and isn't dual natured like a vampire.

Espiritu View Member Profile	Sep 14 2004, 09:33 PM Post #22
Target Group: Members Posts: 73 Joined: 27-August 04 Member No.: 6,604	Ok cool some reasoning. What could possibly be immune to normal attacks and not be dual natured?

mfb View Member Profile	Sep 14 2004, 09:34 PM Post #23
Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670	critters who are the recipients of a free spirit's Hidden Life, and any critter with the Immunity to Normal Weapons power.

PiXeL01 View Member Profile	Sep 15 2004, 09:24 AM Post #24
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 175 Joined: 15-July 04 From: Imperial Japan Member No.: 6,483	Plus you can also use the killing hands power in your human form. Sometimes it is still better to appear human, than something else entirely ;)

Espiritu View Member Profile	Sep 15 2004, 09:52 AM Post #25
Target Group: Members Posts: 73 Joined: 27-August 04 Member No.: 6,604	My drake is going to have a split personality. A different mind for both forms with no connections to the others ego, superego or ID. Espiritu my Night Elf Magician is separate from the Drake form who is yet to be named. This angle derived the ability for the Drake to take his magic in a completely different way and thus Adept powers...unfortunately this also means he also has no personal skills and that I have to develop them separately off the same Karma pool as Espiritu. Neither form can choose to switch to the other...they just switch dominance. Hmm...another thought. Why doesn't Killing Hands assist in Smashing Blow to penetrate Barriers?

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