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> Increased Reflexes
lokugh
post Sep 20 2004, 03:11 AM
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Er, I've just been thinking about a mage and looking at the spells and I have a question:

Is there any reason to take the Increased Reflexes spell at anything above Force 1?
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Siege
post Sep 20 2004, 03:16 AM
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To resist the dispelling effects of hostile wizards and wards, but insofar as I am aware, those are the only reasons.

-Siege
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lokugh
post Sep 20 2004, 03:28 AM
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QUOTE (Siege)
To resist the dispelling effects of hostile wizards and wards, but insofar as I am aware, those are the only reasons.

-Siege

Thanks. Gives me an idea for a smart-aleck mage in my campaign :D
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Sphynx
post Sep 20 2004, 07:18 AM
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Takes at LEAST a Force 3 spell to get through a Force 5 Ward. At least a Force 5 to get through a Force 6 Ward. :)

Sphynx
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Edward
post Sep 20 2004, 09:47 AM
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And the drain is harsh so you don’t want to walk threw the ward and recast.

Edward
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Backgammon
post Sep 20 2004, 01:07 PM
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Might want to look at making that spell Caster Only to help with the drain.
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JaronK
post Sep 20 2004, 02:00 PM
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Well, the drain code makes it a very good idea to take it at only force 1. That way, you're looking at a 2D drain code, which isn't a serious problem. At force 5 though, it's 4D, which is much more significant.

JaronK
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Sphynx
post Sep 20 2004, 02:08 PM
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3D at force 5 with SelfOnly. :P

If you're going to do Force 1 for the drain, might as well do Force 3 (same drain) and get past most Force 4 and lower wards. Force 1 drops when a spirit accidently sneezes in that general direction (exaggeration).

Sphynx
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JaronK
post Sep 20 2004, 02:26 PM
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The drain code is +3(D). At force 3, that would be 6/2 = 3D, which is worse, I would say, than the 2D that you get at force 1 or 2.

JaronK
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Sphynx
post Sep 20 2004, 02:46 PM
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Jaron, +3 is after the division. (Force/2 + 3)Deadly.

Sphynx
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Sargasso
post Sep 20 2004, 03:46 PM
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When I GM Shadowrun, I limit the maximum result of the die roll of initiative increasing spells to the force of the spell. I.E. if you've got a spell at force 1 which grants +3d6 initiative, you're only getting 1's on those dice jack. I know it's totally a house rule, but smart alecks with force 1 spells who benefit from low force annoy me.
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Abstruse
post Sep 21 2004, 12:42 AM
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You know you can cast a spell at a lower Force than you know the spell at, right?

The Abstruse One
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Kagetenshi
post Sep 21 2004, 02:59 AM
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But taking it at a higher force costs more, so if you're barely going to use it at the higher force there's no reason to take it at that.

~J
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Eyeless Blond
post Sep 21 2004, 03:44 AM
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Honestly I don't much see it as such a big deal. Mages in general spend a lot of time in meatspace combat, and without this spell they really don't have any other way of boosting their initiative. This way they at least have *some* chance of surviving to actually cast a spell, maybe even two if they're lucky, before someone geeks them. Without it they're going to be very bored, acting once for every three or four of the other people's actions and probably getting killed after they cast their first spell and everyone else spends their next four initiative passes turning them into sausage.
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Siege
post Sep 21 2004, 04:50 AM
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That's why everyone says a troll has a mage-shaped ass.

-Siege
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Jason Farlander
post Sep 21 2004, 05:59 AM
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QUOTE (Eyeless Blond)
Mages in general spend a lot of time in meatspace combat, and without this spell they really don't have any other way of boosting their initiative.

Well, actually, according to the M&M errata, a level 2 synaptic accelerator coupled with either enhanced articulation or level 1 boosted reflexes would only result in a magic loss of 1 point, which grants a permanent, non-dispellable and non-drain-causing +1/+2d6 or +3d6 to initiative, respectively. The loss of a single magic point really isnt that crippling, so I hardly consider the improved reflexes spell to be a mage's only viable means of initiative increase.
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Edward
post Sep 21 2004, 07:08 AM
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What was the substance of that errata.

Last I cheeked if you have .01 essence loss and .01 bio index you loose 2 points of magic. How did they rework the formula to allow boosted refs and cynap acsel for only 1 point of magic loss.

Edward
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toturi
post Sep 21 2004, 07:20 AM
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You should find it here:

Errata
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Herald of Verjig...
post Sep 21 2004, 07:20 AM
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[edit]Nevermind, the direct link is better
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Austere Emancipa...
post Sep 21 2004, 07:21 AM
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QUOTE (Man and Machine Errata Version 2.0 @ http://shadowrunrpg.com/resources/errata_mm.shtml)
p. 78 Bioware and the Awakened [4]
Replace the third, fourth and fifth paragraphs with the following:

    In game terms, bioware reduces an Awakened character's Magic rating in a way similar to Essence loss. Magic is reduced by the character's Bio Index divided by 2 (round down).

    The effects of Bio Index and Essence reduction on Magic are cumulative, so the two should be combined before determining how Magic is affected. Magic has a starting value equal to the character's Essence minus (Bio Index ÷ 2), rounded down. So a starting magician with Essence 5.8 and a Bio Index of 1 begins with a Magic rating of 5 (5.8 - 0.5 = 5.3, rounded down to 5). Further increases in Bio Index (or reductions in Essence) may also affect the Magic rating whenever the total falls beneath a whole number. If the same magician later acquires more bioware, raising his Bio Index to 2, he will lose an additional point of Magic (5.8 - 1 = 4.8, rounded to 4).

    Magic reduction from bioware functions like other forms of Magic loss-adepts lose some of their powers, for example. Geasa can be used to counteract magic loss from bioware and a character can still initiate to raise his Magic rating.

[Edit]Soooooo slow.[/Edit]
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Sphynx
post Sep 21 2004, 07:27 AM
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QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Sep 21 2004, 04:59 AM)
But taking it at a higher force costs more, so if you're barely going to use it at the higher force there's no reason to take it at that.

~J

I've only cast my Force 6 Increased Reflexes at Force 6, once in my whole career as my current character. That was the day I quickened it with 12 karma. THAT was an excellent reason to have taken it at that force.

** Dares someone to try dispelling that 10D drain spell, especially with a Magic rating less than 12 ** :rotfl:

Sphynx
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Herald of Verjig...
post Sep 21 2004, 07:33 AM
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I'd rather go with force 3, 6 karma and a tattoo. 4/8 and a bigger tattoo if I think the GM will try to take it away.

On the other hand, you don't even need a permit to get a force 2 version tattoo quickened with 4 karma resulting in an effective 8. 8 isn't as hard to beat as 12, so it may actually get dispelled instead of causing an accidental manslaughter in self defense, but it'll take some effort to dispel.
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Sphynx
post Sep 21 2004, 07:39 AM
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You know, I tried that once. Made a character with the spell at Force 3 so that I could do that. I even learned Tattooing, but the GM decided I couldn't tattoo myself without some serious penalties. So I try to find someone to do it for me, and months later I finally decide to give up finding someone and tattoo myself. Ended up with a beautiful tattoo, but missed rolling a 6 even with 2-rerolls and 18 dice per roll (imagine that, 54 dice and not a single 6) by tattooing my legs, and arms (as a dwarf, those are small extremities), and for nothing. Couldn't even re-tattoo them.

Although the chance of that happening a 2nd time is miniscul, I will stick to Force 6 Quickenings for as long as I make characters. :P

Sphynx
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Kagetenshi
post Sep 21 2004, 04:56 PM
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QUOTE (Sphynx)
I've only cast my Force 6 Increased Reflexes at Force 6, once in my whole career as my current character. That was the day I quickened it with 12 karma. THAT was an excellent reason to have taken it at that force.

I would consider Quickening to be constantly using rather than just using once :P

~J
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