IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Increased Reflexes
lokugh
post Sep 20 2004, 03:11 AM
Post #1


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 122
Joined: 1-September 04
Member No.: 6,621



Er, I've just been thinking about a mage and looking at the spells and I have a question:

Is there any reason to take the Increased Reflexes spell at anything above Force 1?

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Siege
post Sep 20 2004, 03:16 AM
Post #2


Dragon
********

Group: Members
Posts: 4,065
Joined: 16-January 03
From: Fayetteville, NC
Member No.: 3,916



To resist the dispelling effects of hostile wizards and wards, but insofar as I am aware, those are the only reasons.

-Siege
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
lokugh
post Sep 20 2004, 03:28 AM
Post #3


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 122
Joined: 1-September 04
Member No.: 6,621



QUOTE (Siege)
To resist the dispelling effects of hostile wizards and wards, but insofar as I am aware, those are the only reasons.

-Siege

Thanks. Gives me an idea for a smart-aleck mage in my campaign :D
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Sphynx
post Sep 20 2004, 07:18 AM
Post #4


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,222
Joined: 11-October 02
From: Netherlands and Belgium
Member No.: 3,437



Takes at LEAST a Force 3 spell to get through a Force 5 Ward. At least a Force 5 to get through a Force 6 Ward. :)

Sphynx
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Edward
post Sep 20 2004, 09:47 AM
Post #5


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,073
Joined: 23-August 04
Member No.: 6,587



And the drain is harsh so you don’t want to walk threw the ward and recast.

Edward
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Backgammon
post Sep 20 2004, 01:07 PM
Post #6


Ain Soph Aur
******

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 3,477
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Montreal, Canada
Member No.: 600



Might want to look at making that spell Caster Only to help with the drain.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
JaronK
post Sep 20 2004, 02:00 PM
Post #7


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 942
Joined: 13-May 04
Member No.: 6,323



Well, the drain code makes it a very good idea to take it at only force 1. That way, you're looking at a 2D drain code, which isn't a serious problem. At force 5 though, it's 4D, which is much more significant.

JaronK
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Sphynx
post Sep 20 2004, 02:08 PM
Post #8


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,222
Joined: 11-October 02
From: Netherlands and Belgium
Member No.: 3,437



3D at force 5 with SelfOnly. :P

If you're going to do Force 1 for the drain, might as well do Force 3 (same drain) and get past most Force 4 and lower wards. Force 1 drops when a spirit accidently sneezes in that general direction (exaggeration).

Sphynx

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
JaronK
post Sep 20 2004, 02:26 PM
Post #9


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 942
Joined: 13-May 04
Member No.: 6,323



The drain code is +3(D). At force 3, that would be 6/2 = 3D, which is worse, I would say, than the 2D that you get at force 1 or 2.

JaronK
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Sphynx
post Sep 20 2004, 02:46 PM
Post #10


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,222
Joined: 11-October 02
From: Netherlands and Belgium
Member No.: 3,437



Jaron, +3 is after the division. (Force/2 + 3)Deadly.

Sphynx
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Sargasso
post Sep 20 2004, 03:46 PM
Post #11


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 171
Joined: 9-September 04
Member No.: 6,641



When I GM Shadowrun, I limit the maximum result of the die roll of initiative increasing spells to the force of the spell. I.E. if you've got a spell at force 1 which grants +3d6 initiative, you're only getting 1's on those dice jack. I know it's totally a house rule, but smart alecks with force 1 spells who benefit from low force annoy me.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Abstruse
post Sep 21 2004, 12:42 AM
Post #12


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,451
Joined: 21-April 03
From: Austin, TX
Member No.: 4,488



You know you can cast a spell at a lower Force than you know the spell at, right?

The Abstruse One
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kagetenshi
post Sep 21 2004, 02:59 AM
Post #13


Manus Celer Dei
**********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 16,888
Joined: 30-December 02
From: Boston
Member No.: 3,802



But taking it at a higher force costs more, so if you're barely going to use it at the higher force there's no reason to take it at that.

~J
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Eyeless Blond
post Sep 21 2004, 03:44 AM
Post #14


Decker on the Threshold
******

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 2,922
Joined: 14-March 04
Member No.: 6,156



Honestly I don't much see it as such a big deal. Mages in general spend a lot of time in meatspace combat, and without this spell they really don't have any other way of boosting their initiative. This way they at least have *some* chance of surviving to actually cast a spell, maybe even two if they're lucky, before someone geeks them. Without it they're going to be very bored, acting once for every three or four of the other people's actions and probably getting killed after they cast their first spell and everyone else spends their next four initiative passes turning them into sausage.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Siege
post Sep 21 2004, 04:50 AM
Post #15


Dragon
********

Group: Members
Posts: 4,065
Joined: 16-January 03
From: Fayetteville, NC
Member No.: 3,916



That's why everyone says a troll has a mage-shaped ass.

-Siege
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Jason Farlander
post Sep 21 2004, 05:59 AM
Post #16


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,049
Joined: 24-March 03
Member No.: 4,323



QUOTE (Eyeless Blond)
Mages in general spend a lot of time in meatspace combat, and without this spell they really don't have any other way of boosting their initiative.

Well, actually, according to the M&M errata, a level 2 synaptic accelerator coupled with either enhanced articulation or level 1 boosted reflexes would only result in a magic loss of 1 point, which grants a permanent, non-dispellable and non-drain-causing +1/+2d6 or +3d6 to initiative, respectively. The loss of a single magic point really isnt that crippling, so I hardly consider the improved reflexes spell to be a mage's only viable means of initiative increase.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Edward
post Sep 21 2004, 07:08 AM
Post #17


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,073
Joined: 23-August 04
Member No.: 6,587



What was the substance of that errata.

Last I cheeked if you have .01 essence loss and .01 bio index you loose 2 points of magic. How did they rework the formula to allow boosted refs and cynap acsel for only 1 point of magic loss.

Edward
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
toturi
post Sep 21 2004, 07:20 AM
Post #18


Canon Companion
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 8,021
Joined: 2-March 03
From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG
Member No.: 4,187



You should find it here:

Errata
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Herald of Verjig...
post Sep 21 2004, 07:20 AM
Post #19


Runner
******

Group: Members
Posts: 3,066
Joined: 5-February 03
Member No.: 4,017



[edit]Nevermind, the direct link is better
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Austere Emancipa...
post Sep 21 2004, 07:21 AM
Post #20


Great Dragon
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 5,889
Joined: 3-August 03
From: A CPI rank 1 country
Member No.: 5,222



QUOTE (Man and Machine Errata Version 2.0 @ http://shadowrunrpg.com/resources/errata_mm.shtml)
p. 78 Bioware and the Awakened [4]
Replace the third, fourth and fifth paragraphs with the following:

    In game terms, bioware reduces an Awakened character's Magic rating in a way similar to Essence loss. Magic is reduced by the character's Bio Index divided by 2 (round down).

    The effects of Bio Index and Essence reduction on Magic are cumulative, so the two should be combined before determining how Magic is affected. Magic has a starting value equal to the character's Essence minus (Bio Index 2), rounded down. So a starting magician with Essence 5.8 and a Bio Index of 1 begins with a Magic rating of 5 (5.8 - 0.5 = 5.3, rounded down to 5). Further increases in Bio Index (or reductions in Essence) may also affect the Magic rating whenever the total falls beneath a whole number. If the same magician later acquires more bioware, raising his Bio Index to 2, he will lose an additional point of Magic (5.8 - 1 = 4.8, rounded to 4).

    Magic reduction from bioware functions like other forms of Magic loss-adepts lose some of their powers, for example. Geasa can be used to counteract magic loss from bioware and a character can still initiate to raise his Magic rating.

[Edit]Soooooo slow.[/Edit]
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Sphynx
post Sep 21 2004, 07:27 AM
Post #21


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,222
Joined: 11-October 02
From: Netherlands and Belgium
Member No.: 3,437



QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Sep 21 2004, 04:59 AM)
But taking it at a higher force costs more, so if you're barely going to use it at the higher force there's no reason to take it at that.

~J

I've only cast my Force 6 Increased Reflexes at Force 6, once in my whole career as my current character. That was the day I quickened it with 12 karma. THAT was an excellent reason to have taken it at that force.

** Dares someone to try dispelling that 10D drain spell, especially with a Magic rating less than 12 ** :rotfl:

Sphynx
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Herald of Verjig...
post Sep 21 2004, 07:33 AM
Post #22


Runner
******

Group: Members
Posts: 3,066
Joined: 5-February 03
Member No.: 4,017



I'd rather go with force 3, 6 karma and a tattoo. 4/8 and a bigger tattoo if I think the GM will try to take it away.

On the other hand, you don't even need a permit to get a force 2 version tattoo quickened with 4 karma resulting in an effective 8. 8 isn't as hard to beat as 12, so it may actually get dispelled instead of causing an accidental manslaughter in self defense, but it'll take some effort to dispel.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Sphynx
post Sep 21 2004, 07:39 AM
Post #23


Neophyte Runner
*****

Group: Members
Posts: 2,222
Joined: 11-October 02
From: Netherlands and Belgium
Member No.: 3,437



You know, I tried that once. Made a character with the spell at Force 3 so that I could do that. I even learned Tattooing, but the GM decided I couldn't tattoo myself without some serious penalties. So I try to find someone to do it for me, and months later I finally decide to give up finding someone and tattoo myself. Ended up with a beautiful tattoo, but missed rolling a 6 even with 2-rerolls and 18 dice per roll (imagine that, 54 dice and not a single 6) by tattooing my legs, and arms (as a dwarf, those are small extremities), and for nothing. Couldn't even re-tattoo them.

Although the chance of that happening a 2nd time is miniscul, I will stick to Force 6 Quickenings for as long as I make characters. :P

Sphynx
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kagetenshi
post Sep 21 2004, 04:56 PM
Post #24


Manus Celer Dei
**********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 16,888
Joined: 30-December 02
From: Boston
Member No.: 3,802



QUOTE (Sphynx)
I've only cast my Force 6 Increased Reflexes at Force 6, once in my whole career as my current character. That was the day I quickened it with 12 karma. THAT was an excellent reason to have taken it at that force.

I would consider Quickening to be constantly using rather than just using once :P

~J
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 19th October 2020 - 03:45 PM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.