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> Shedim?
Dvalin
post Sep 21 2004, 08:55 AM
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Hey folks;

I'm thinking of running a game in the Auvergne area, using the information presented in Shadows of Europe. The question I have, though, is this: where's the information for shedim? :( There's a description of a city having become a shedim hive in the area, with lots of ash zombies present. Given that the only materials I find laying about are zombie stats -- should I take shedim to be equivalent to zombie? Or are they evil loa possessing a -living- body? I'm sure I've just completely passed over a passage and it'll just jump out at me once someone says "Look here!" -- but help will be appreciated, surely.

Thanks much!
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Nath
post Sep 21 2004, 08:59 AM
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Basically Year of the Comet, and Threats 2 for extra.
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Kanada Ten
post Sep 21 2004, 03:55 PM
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In brief, Shedim are not Loa spirits or related to any part of Voodoo that we know of. They entered our plane through astral rifts and can only survive here by possessing dead or unoccupied bodies. They have a variety of powers randomly assigned to individuals that make them very dangerous (Regeneration, Death Touch, ect). Normally encountered shedim seem to exist only to cause more death, thus opening more hosts. What their real purpose is may be totally different.
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Dvalin
post Sep 21 2004, 04:45 PM
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Hm! So -- not having Threats 2 or Wake of the Comet (and adding them to the list of to-get books, which is actually fairly small presently), I could generally create stats for them using either an average meta or zombie as a base, and then add spirit powers?

Also -- thanks much, Kanada Ten, Nath! You've been quite helpful. :)
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Herald of Verjig...
post Sep 21 2004, 04:56 PM
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Be careful, Wake of the Comet is a run book, Year of the Comet is a timeline update book that has stats for basic shedim.
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Dvalin
post Sep 21 2004, 06:26 PM
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Ah! Noted. Correction made. ;)
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Prospero
post Sep 21 2004, 07:23 PM
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Also, you can banish them, like other spirits, but that just forces them out of said body. Then you have to banish them again if you want them gone for good. Plus, they're really hard to see on the astral (I forget the actual mod, and book isn't here at the moment).
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Empyrean Seraph
post Sep 21 2004, 09:01 PM
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QUOTE (Herald of Verjigorm)
stats for basic shedim.

Basic - are there other types of shedim, then?
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Kanada Ten
post Sep 21 2004, 09:52 PM
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QUOTE (Empyrean Seraph)
Basic - are there other types of shedim, then?

Yes, yes there is at least one other type of shedim: master shedim. Much more dangerous. Threats 2 has this type of shedim in it aloing with some of the best fiction of third edition (Can You See the Real Me?).
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Dashifen
post Sep 21 2004, 11:13 PM
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So, to sum up:

Year of the Comet: contains information about "normal" shedim and where they seem to have come from.

Threats 2: contains information about master shedim and their powers with respect to other shedim.

Also, the canon sources on shedim have often said in the game information sections that other types of shedim could exist and GMs can make up their own nasty shedim surprises for the players when the normal shedim threats become expected or at least dealt with.

Edit: I agree with k-10. Threats 2 has some great fiction in it. In addition to Can You See the Real Me, I particularly liked the work in Imps as well. </hijack>
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Dvalin
post Sep 22 2004, 01:03 AM
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So -- just because we're hijacking this a bit already, and because it does go along the line of "help an inexperienced gamemaster find materials!"...

What should I be getting to insure that I have a solid access to the general types of beasties and enemies described in the various fiction or fluff? Naturally, notes are already made on shedim -- and are there other similar creatures that are mentioned regularly that are mentioned in a few very specific books?

I currently have:

Shadowrun corebook, 2x (3x, actually, if I retrieve one I lent to a friend)
Shadowrun companion
Man and Machine
Rigger 3
Cannon Companion
Magic in the Shadows
State of the Art: 2063
Corporate Download
Mister Johnson's Little Black Book
Target: Wastelands
Shadows of Europe

Currently on my to-get list are:
Threats 2
Sprawl Survival Guide
Year of the Comet
Matrix
Dragons of the Sixth World

Now -- to head off the "You have all -that- and you're inexperienced?" question; I've got a few flaky players, and so there've been a fair number of campaigns we've tried to get running that have stalled before actually becoming established. Each time a campaign starts toward that "going" state, I end up getting a couple books more that'd apply -- and each time...

Is there anything missing from the to-get list? In what priority would you put these various materials?
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Kanada Ten
post Sep 22 2004, 01:09 AM
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The Shadowrun GM Screen comes with a booklet called Critters which has all the third edition conversions of every "monster" made mention previous - except wraiths. However, I suggest getting Paranormal Animals of North America (and then, if you do play a lot, of Europe) and asking us how to convert 2nd edition monsters into third.

[edit] I was going to link Stiggybaby as a place to get either, but they now have neither. Fast Forward is empty as well.

I hope they consider tossing Critters into Running Wild when it comes out.
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Herald of Verjig...
post Sep 22 2004, 01:38 AM
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Critters is far from complete, but is has a lot with just the stats and simple description. Awakened Lands and/or Wastelands (maybe both, maybe only one, can't remember) reintroduces some of the creatures not in Critters.

Paranormal Animals of ___ books also give a lot more description, a picture, some shadowtalk, a habitation chart, and a comparison to a standard human. You can read "massive 18 meter long armadillo" but when you see the size comparison that shows the human and a single foot, it really starts to sink in. That's one, the smaller para-armadillo hasn't been put in any recent product, and there are definately more than just the greater armadillo and wraith.
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lokugh
post Sep 22 2004, 03:07 AM
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Kanada is right, definitely add the SR3 GM screen to get the Critters book (it is included). If you already have the old first edition Paranormal animal books (Europe and North America) then you can skip it, but since you don't have them, get the SR3 GM Screen.

You should then (after you add the books on your wishlist) have all the current critters, for the most part. Except one big one. You need Bug City. It has all the Bug Spirit info, I do believe. Plus, it is, in my opinion, one of the top three SR sourcebooks for the "fictional world" aspect that I personally loved long before I ever got to play or GM Shadowrun.
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otaku mike
post Sep 22 2004, 08:40 AM
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IIRC, Magic in the Shadows reprinted most of the necessary info about bug spirits.
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Rock-Steady
post Sep 22 2004, 10:13 AM
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QUOTE (Kanada Ten)
The Shadowrun GM Screen comes with a booklet called Critters which has all the third edition conversions of every "monster" made mention previous - except wraiths.


And the Megalodon, which is in T:AL.

Wraith are in the adventure "Survival of the fittest".
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Pistons
post Sep 22 2004, 01:01 PM
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QUOTE (Dvalin)

Currently on my to-get list are:
Threats 2
Sprawl Survival Guide
Year of the Comet
Matrix
Dragons of the Sixth World

Is there anything missing from the to-get list? In what priority would you put these various materials?

For the beasties and enemies, I'd say that Year of the Comet should top your list; the GM's screen + Critters can be difficult to find, and Running Wild should be out in the next month or two.

If you're looking to complete your 'advanced rules' ruleset, Matrix tops the list.

If you'd like flavor about the world of Shadowrun in general, Sprawl Survival Guide is what you want.

The rest is good to have, particularly in regard to metaplot and grabbing run ideas spun off of the information inside. If you want to include master shedim into your games, then Threats 2 should be your #2 book after YotC. And, YotC will provide some of the basis behind a lot of the things you'd read in the plot books put out after it.
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Empyrean Seraph
post Sep 22 2004, 03:00 PM
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QUOTE (Rock-Steady)
And the Megalodon, which is in T:AL.

As well as the New Leatherback, and that perennial favorite, the Wombrick. ;)
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Empyrean Seraph
post Sep 22 2004, 03:02 PM
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QUOTE (Pistons)
and Running Wild should be out in the next month or two.

Is this going to be a reprint of the critters information, or something else?
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Synner
post Sep 22 2004, 06:58 PM
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Mostly something else... think of it as a Sprawl Survival Guide approach to Critters rather than a Monster Manual approach. You get to see how critters fit into everyday life in the Sixth World from security work to pets, from safaris to the problems of being HMHVV-positive, from cyber to animal handling. The focus is on integrating critters of all sorts into the game. Whether or not it contains critter stats like Critters and the adventure pack Predator and Prey is still up in the air as far as I know.
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Kanada Ten
post Sep 22 2004, 10:18 PM
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I will reiterate that due to the status of Critters as out of print, Running Wild should either come with a) Critters packaged in, b) a Creature Creation Guide including powers, or c) a list of commonly encountered critters not covered in recent books. Shadowrun is drawing both old and new players to the game, and critters can be an important and flavorful aspect of the world. Obviously, cost and page count issues are important, and failing any of the above options, posting the power list and common critters on the webpage would be in order.
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toturi
post Sep 22 2004, 11:35 PM
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I agreed with K-10. Unless Critters is being reprinted either as a stand alone or packaged with Running Wild, stat blocks for common critters should be included in Running Wild, for the simple reason that I can't lay my hands on a GM Screen!
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Prospero
post Sep 23 2004, 06:29 AM
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The last time I looked the GM screen and Critters was listed on the top of the upcoming reprints page on the official site. I checked since I ordered it like 3 months ago from somewhere and haven't got it yet. I assume I'll get it after the reprint... :(
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Dvalin
post Sep 24 2004, 04:14 AM
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I've actually got the Critter sourcebook on hand -- a friend acquired the screen and critter book a while back, but he got fed up with storytelling (too much of a hack-and-slash mindset), and lent me that one.

As regard others..

The list I had worked up for books to get:
Threats 2
Sprawl Survival Guide
Year of the Comet
Matrix
Dragons of the Sixth World

The additions:
Paranormal Animals of North America
Paranormal Animals of Europe
Running Wild (when it is released)
Bug City

Am I missing anything in the addition to the to-get list? ;)

As for prioritization; the Matrix book was relatively lower priority because I tend to favor glossing over that side of the run -- my current group of players is willing to go with that, and it does insure a smooth flow on other parts of things. They, instead, have a decker contact who can provide some help with basic net work.

Sprawl survival guide had relatively higher prioritization because it, if I recall correctly, is intended to have a goodly dose of information on false identities, bolt holes, and all those other various fun things that runners want to have on hand.

I suppose I could probably nudge up YotC to slot 2, though..
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Kanada Ten
post Sep 24 2004, 04:20 AM
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If you have Critters the Paranormal books are simply nice additions, not requirements. The Sprawl Survival Guide will come in more common use than YotC, and is indeed a wonderful expansion. If you get Threats 2, the information on Master Shedim will give you a good idea of the powers of basic Shedim by reading the reactions to its increased powers. That said, Year of the Comet is still among my favorite 3rd Edition books, but... I'm !|\|5@|\|3
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