 What advantage do heretics get? |
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 Sep 27 2004, 10:36 AM
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#26
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 241 Joined: 20-September 04 Member No.: 6,682  |
Major advantage for hermetics...
generally, two hermetics get along better than two shamans... (rat and eagle? ::shiver ::) |
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Sep 27 2004, 02:12 PM
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#27
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Target Group: Members Posts: 88 Joined: 13-January 04 Member No.: 5,975 |
My group is going to hate you...... |
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Sep 27 2004, 04:59 PM
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#28
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587 |
Ok now I cant find eth 28 day limit.
I don’t know where I got that idea. This dose mean keeping elementals on retainer is a workable option. Edward |
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Sep 27 2004, 07:26 PM
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#29
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
Not true. Allies do not count against the number of elementals or watchers a mage can have on tap.
It's a time-honored way of dealing with focus-abusing mages. One spirit attacks the focus astrally, forcing the mage to go astral to defend it. Once that happens, he gets gang-banged. :vegm: |
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Sep 27 2004, 07:29 PM
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#30
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UMS O.G. Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 444 Joined: 18-May 04 Member No.: 6,335 |
Elementals also help with one of the hardest things a mage has to do, learn spells. Adding 6 extra dice to your sorcery is a HUGE help trying to hit 12-18 targets numbers.
When you are a shaman or a hermetic with a horde, learn spirit blast. Wipe out your opponents horde, then swamp him with yours. |
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Sep 27 2004, 09:24 PM
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#31
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 611 Joined: 21-October 03 From: Yorkshire Toxic Zone Member No.: 5,752 |
A shaman with invoking kicks mighty, mighty ass.
Which makes them as effective as mages, if not more so, as they can have a bunch of different great form nature spirits, just like a mage with a bunch of great form elementals. The real difference then becomes that they will only last till dawn or dusk. But a shaman can call them faster and doesn't require uber-cashflow to do it, as long as they can drain the suckers. Mages have their advantages but they can't metaplane quest for health spells because there's no appropriate place, which a shaman can just go to their totem's home plane as usual for any spell they feel like (shamanists not withstanding). Not mentioning Wujen of course, which are my personal favorite munchkin class, if you swap one of the spirit types they can call for Spirits of Man, anyway... I think there's little to choose between mages and shaman mechanics-wise, but I find nature spirits to be much more versatile than elementals, except when it comes to the mass astral attack idea in which case KARL KOMBAT MAGE! GO GO GO! GO KA-ARL, GO KA-ARL... uh. Right. Ahem. However imagine a pack of great form nature spirits. Each can use a different power, on multiple targets. So Mass Accident, Confusion, maybe Fear thrown in and another one Guarding you and the team. Yummy. There's the roleplay consideration, and while I know this isn't canon anymore (if it ever was), in our game a shaman can lose favour with their totem if they don't roleplay according to its ideals - or at least can't justify why a particular they did was compatible, anyway, repeat offenders only. That makes it a much more distinct choice at our table. If you want to play a shaman you have to consider what it means. Your character has chosen to follow a certain path. its an inbuilt roleplay choice and so you are only free to come up with personality and background within the parameters of that initial choice. And I would humbly suggest that taking the roleplay route rather than the game mechanic route is a preferable approach to chargen anyway. But you may disagree. |
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Sep 27 2004, 09:46 PM
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#32
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Target Group: Members Posts: 72 Joined: 12-September 04 Member No.: 6,654 |
Magic is definitely not my strong point... is this true? |
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Sep 27 2004, 10:04 PM
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#33
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
yes. great form nature spirits ignore domain boundaries. of course, you basically have to summon them twice, and take twice the drain.
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Sep 27 2004, 10:06 PM
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#34
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
He's talking non-Great Forms, though.
~J |
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Sep 27 2004, 10:29 PM
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#35
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 241 Joined: 20-September 04 Member No.: 6,682 |
Don't forget about the Voodoun... their great form loas are pretty bloody scary.
On the other hand, a hermetic with a great form force 8 fire elemental and channeling is not fun. Not fun at all. |
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Sep 27 2004, 10:34 PM
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#36
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,049 Joined: 24-March 03 Member No.: 4,323 |
Huh? What? Where? Please provide a page number and text to back up this claim. |
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Sep 28 2004, 02:24 AM
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#37
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
Not that I can recall. According to my read of MITS, only Great Forms can cross domain lines. |
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Sep 28 2004, 02:26 AM
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#38
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Target Group: Members Posts: 47 Joined: 12-September 04 From: Ames, IA Member No.: 6,653 |
What's channeling? It's not mentioned in MITS or BBB, as far as I can tell. |
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Sep 28 2004, 02:30 AM
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#39
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Well, a shaman with Invoking and Channelling is no fun with a Storm Spirit or a Spirit of the Flames. |
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Sep 28 2004, 02:31 AM
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#40
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Channeling is in Target: Awakened Lands and is a metamagic that allows a summoner to absorb or 'channel' the spirit to gain its powers for a time. The summoner can cross domain lines and keep the powers, but the powers disappear after a limited time.
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Sep 28 2004, 03:40 AM
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#41
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
oh, right. no, a shaman with Invoking cannot take a non-great form over domain boundaries. i just read the Invoking section, and it says nothing about anything like that.
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Sep 28 2004, 10:34 AM
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#42
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 241 Joined: 20-September 04 Member No.: 6,682 |
:: nods :: thankfully, most shamans can't get ahold of spirits of the flame. Storm spirit great-forms are a lil hard to snag because their domain is somewhat rarer... but... yes, they are nightmarish and I know this from personal experience.
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Sep 28 2004, 04:30 PM
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#43
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587 |
If you take channelling as a hermetic keep a force 7 are elemental as an ace in the hole. You will dam near kill yourself summoning it (so have appropriate protections up) but when you are in the drek it will pull your ass out of the fire. +7 to all physicals and a movement power. If you make it a great form (you so want foci to summon this one) you also get 14 hardened armour. That will bounce all the likely weapons. 7000 and a fiew days recovery for an ace in the hole that big. I think its worth it.
Edward |
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Sep 28 2004, 09:34 PM
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#44
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,032 Joined: 6-August 04 Member No.: 6,543 |
Hermetic mages do not really need to worry about drain from summoning. You shamans have to take drain when you want a big demon..I hermetic go to my house with my charisma of 8,and summon at force 8 elemental., take some stun mage,and go to bed.Wake up,and everything is fine.I can call that bad boy when I need him.
So as hermetic mage I can know how much spirit back i have before I go into battle.Also any good hermetic mage will not be spending all the much money on the gear for getting his pets.You one can look for them,buy them from contact, and have your ally look for the stuff as well, further more when you get high up in your magic you can get force 7-10 great forms,and if you need more than one of those on a run, you(or GM) did something wrong. As A shaman, of any level try summoning a force 10 great form. See how you do in combat.... |
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Sep 28 2004, 10:34 PM
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#45
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
@Cynic project:
True, unless aforementioned drain is physical. There is a relatively easy way to make a shaman who does not worry about drain from conjuring. You get a trauma damper, and up your strength to 12 or so. Voila: Force 6 spirits only do light drain, which you can never fail to remove with the TD. This trick even works with force 6 great-forms. [edit]I'm assuming the drain isn't physical here too[/edit] |
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Sep 28 2004, 10:52 PM
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#46
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
But if you've got a mage with a trauma damper the drain can go into physical and you only have to worry about getting it down to Moderate as long as you've got 24 hours before the run starts.
~J |
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Sep 28 2004, 10:55 PM
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#47
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
Yeah, well consider that it takes an elf with 126 Karma and a Trauma Dampener (which usually isn't available until after chargen, and means a geas at the least), to do what hermatic mages do without any special effort other than the extra cash cost of summoning. With the same amount of Karma the hermatic has initiated four or five times, raised his Cha once or twice, and has two Force 9 great form elementals and seven Force 6 great form elementals on tap.
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Sep 28 2004, 11:04 PM
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#48
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
yes, but no amount of karma will give a hermetic a spirit with the confusion power, or concealment or search, or accident, or fear, or...
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Sep 28 2004, 11:16 PM
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#49
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 16-August 03 From: Northampton Member No.: 5,499 |
Well if you go Eld Bonus Attribute (Cha), then im sure that would not fined a sinlge person on here that would pay 30 Karma to be able Summon Force 5 with no Drain.
Then like what 19 Karma to get Invoking and Channeling. so 49 Karma and you become the Force 5 Spirit Wielding Bad boy from your chosen meta plane |
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Sep 28 2004, 11:22 PM
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#50
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
@Kagetenshi: Fair point, although getting the 4 you need on that body test is not garuanteed. See my point below too.
@Eyeless Blond: Increase charisma in a focus... Only costs 4-8 spell points and 30-60k :nuyen: depending on what your starting cha is. Cultured Bioware is not strictly banned either. The disadvantage with the 'i'll sleep it off' route compared to the 'I'll summon it now' route is that you can replenish your ranks as they go down. The undisputed advantage of going hermetic is that you can summon higher force spirits, which as you get up to force 8 or 9 become truly awesome. The best way for the shaman to defend against large packs of high-force spirits is to use a few (3) force 6 great-form spirits to simply give their force in TN penalties to all of your spirits using their confusion power. The enemy are now on +6 to TNs which can cancel-out the benefits of superior numbers and more. |
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