![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
![]()
Post
#1
|
|
Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 241 Joined: 20-September 04 Member No.: 6,682 ![]() |
Made me think about the idea of partial rigging... basically, the vehicle gains the "reflexes" of the rigger, but is still being manually piloted by him. This would mostly be applicable in lean-steered vehicles like motorcycles or airboards, or in cases where the rigger wants to do something other than drive but is not using the manual controls. Would this be unbalancing? I think you could make a serious case for limited "autonomic" responses via partial rigging. It is a weird idea, looking at it, and I'm not sure I'm expressing myself very clearly either.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#2
|
|
Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 282 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 197 ![]() |
I think I understand what you're saying. For instance: suppose you wanted to shoot from the back of your bike. You could use partial rigging kind of like how neurohelmets work in Battletech. You still inhabit and control your body (no RAS cutout) and are able to aim and fire handheld weapons, but the bike handles better by taking subconcious cues from your connection. It would read your sense of balance, for instance, and possibly your will to go faster or slow down.
Essentially, it would be less like becoming the bike and more like the bike becoming a part of you, controlled with the unconcious ease of a limb. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#3
|
|
Manus Celer Dei ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,008 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 ![]() |
You're basically thinking of a datajack link. I might consider increasing the bonus to +2 per level of VCR with no added initiative dice, or +1 +VCR level (again, no added initiative dice), but nothing more.
~J |
|
|
![]()
Post
#4
|
|
Neophyte Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587 ![]() |
What system is used for combat biker and similar sports?
The rules make bike combat almost imposable but it is supposed to be a sport. Edward |
|
|
![]()
Post
#5
|
|
Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 219 Joined: 26-April 02 From: Emerald City, Oz Member No.: 2,648 ![]() |
Combat Biking...a sport for guys and gals sans VCR.
A decent reaction/initiative booster, a 4+ in Bike, and you can munch and crunch...even without rigging. As for the partial rigging...we have often switched off the RAS override for our riggers or deckers in past games. Sure it frags with their concentration, but being able to fire off wisecracks (and the occasional Predator round) while you're busy "elsewhere" can be a real lifesaver... |
|
|
![]()
Post
#6
|
|
Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 241 Joined: 20-September 04 Member No.: 6,682 ![]() |
:: nods :: I'm not talking about just disabling the RAS, though. Hasaku understood, and I think I agree with Kage pretty much... the advantage is that you can multitask while driving as a rigger, the downside is that you lose some of your rigger perks, and probably can only issue extremely rudimentary commands to your drone network. It'd basically be automatic vehicle empathy, cumulative with the edge if you have it.... so in theory partial rigging could allow superior handling, which would be accurate, with the loss of some of your speed... it'd probably be easier to do something else while driving like this too... Overall, how would you model it?
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#7
|
|
Genuine Artificial Intelligence ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 ![]() |
Well there's so many ways to model it depending on exactly where you want the trade-off to fall between vehicle ability and extra-vehicular ability. Before we just go plopping lines down randomly, give us some benchmarks. Some maximums or minimums for vehicle and non-vehicle ability, and we can try to find a good compromise.
Otherwise, everyone will just have their own idea about how much mind should be left for the vehicle and how much should go elsewhere, and we'll all be trying to come to a common decision about an uncommon idea. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#8
|
|
Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 241 Joined: 20-September 04 Member No.: 6,682 ![]() |
:: nods :: I want a consensus, because really, you've already heard my opinion... I'd like to get a codified system built that could serve as a house standard.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#9
|
|
Genuine Artificial Intelligence ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 ![]() |
So...for the vehicle side of it:
we keep the -VCR level to handling tests. I'd say we'd have to drop the control pool. Control pool is only for full immersion. Initiative...still undecited. For the physical side of it: We can take other actions. Of course one action per turn must still be dedicated to controlling the vehicle. Nothing's gonna change that. Combat pool...I'd say somewhere between none to half. Not full. Initiative...still not sure what to base it off of. Can we agree on this much, so far? |
|
|
![]()
Post
#10
|
|
Genuine Artificial Intelligence ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 ![]() |
As for initiative, that's where it really gets tricky. They're not going full rigging speed, since they're not fully rigging, and there's no reason a VCR should give them any kind of bonus to physical actions. Similarly, there's no way they could be going faster than their normal physical reactions, except I could see the vehicle control not counting against them so much.
But would the VCR interfere with their physical reactions? Maybe use normal physical reaction, one pass has to be used for vehicle control as normal. Maybe say that only one pass can be used for vehicle control, and that no other vehicle tests can be made (except for crash tests). That way someone with MBW4 and a VCR1 (nevermind how) can't take extra vehicle actions when partial rigging. I could also definitely see a penalty to initiative, if it's felt necessary. Honestly, I really don't see the problem with letting a rigger tone down their VCR and just use it for a small edge. If you've spent 5 essence on a VCR3 and all you want to use it for is -3 handling, with no control pool or super rigger speed, who am I to complain? So how 'bout this: Normal physical initiative. Vehicle: 1 complex action dedicated to controlling the vehicle or make a crash test as usual. The only exception here is that it is exactly 1 complex action, instead of at least 1. No control pool. No sensors. Physical: Half combat pool. Sound playable? Not horribly unbalanced? |
|
|
![]()
Post
#11
|
|
Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 50 Joined: 9-September 04 Member No.: 6,646 ![]() |
So basically this would be like a trode unit for rigging?
Methinks this a promising avenue of thought and that similar penalties and limitations would be appropriate here. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#12
|
|
Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 241 Joined: 20-September 04 Member No.: 6,682 ![]() |
Not at all. you'd still need a full hot link, perhaps even more so... this is just rules for partial or extremely limited immersion, or piloting a vehicle that requires some physical input while still rigging it.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#13
|
|
Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 241 Joined: 20-September 04 Member No.: 6,682 ![]() |
<bump>
I really would like to get some rules sketched out..? |
|
|
![]()
Post
#14
|
|
Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 236 Joined: 14-March 04 From: Cal Poly: SLO Member No.: 6,155 ![]() |
I would say just use the rules for driveing by datajack, with the handling mod from the VCR. I have a character with pretty much the same problem. He has an open-cockpit aircraft, and likes to be 'awake' when he's flying in it.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#15
|
|
Decker on the Threshold ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 ![]() |
I really think that init boost should be good for *something* though. Maybe let him have extra driving actions for any extra init passes he would have had if he were in the machine?
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#16
|
|
Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 241 Joined: 20-September 04 Member No.: 6,682 ![]() |
maybe, but I kinda like Kage's suggestion, which would be useful... there's so many ways to handle it... we need to do some play testing.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#17
|
|
Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 187 Joined: 30-April 04 Member No.: 6,294 ![]() |
Hang on... Doesn't the VCR function by translating the rigger's movement impluses into vechile movement? I remember that being the main reason for the RAS, or am I wrong here?
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#18
|
|
Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 241 Joined: 20-September 04 Member No.: 6,682 ![]() |
:: laughs :: I seriously hope you're wrong, otherwise we've just screwed a buncha riggers.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#19
|
|
Traumatizing players since 1992 ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 ![]() |
the only vehicle this applies to is motorcycles, which can drive themselves if they have a gyro installed. I rule that the VCR can make the rigger hand on if he's riding a vehicle that requires it, like a motorcycle. He's still fully rigging he just doesn't fall off.
Simple, Not complicated. |
|
|
![]()
Post
#20
|
|
Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 47 Joined: 3-October 04 Member No.: 6,723 ![]() |
I agree with simple not complex. Why not use Datajack rules but give an extra +1 reaction bonus per level of VCR (no extra dice). Remove the control pool, apply a +2 target mod to all actions preformed other than vehicle control, require a complex action per combat turn to control the vehicle and call that good?
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#21
|
|
Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 241 Joined: 20-September 04 Member No.: 6,682 ![]() |
:: nods :: seconded.
|
|
|
![]()
Post
#22
|
|
Manus Celer Dei ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,008 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 ![]() |
Essentially what I suggested.
~J |
|
|
![]()
Post
#23
|
|||
Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 47 Joined: 3-October 04 Member No.: 6,723 ![]() |
<Nods to Kagetenshi> :) And allow combat pool for actions outside of rigging. I think we can all agree that while +2 doesn't stop the action, it sure puts a crimp in those success tests. |
||
|
|||
![]()
Post
#24
|
|
Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 241 Joined: 20-September 04 Member No.: 6,682 ![]() |
this sounds right and we've got a fair consensus.
|
|
|
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 18th February 2025 - 01:09 AM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.