IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Grenade Launchers and you, some rule clarifications
GlassJaw
post Sep 30 2004, 05:09 PM
Post #1


Moving Target
**

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 202
Joined: 15-September 04
From: East Providence, RI
Member No.: 6,664



Just a few questions related to grenade launchers:

Can you mount a GL on guns other than assault rifles (like shotguns)?

Can you add a smartlink to a GL?

If you have a GL mounted on a gun, does it need its own smartlink?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Moon-Hawk
post Sep 30 2004, 05:18 PM
Post #2


Genuine Artificial Intelligence
********

Group: Members
Posts: 4,019
Joined: 12-June 03
Member No.: 4,715



1) I don't see any reason why not.
2) Yes. But I think those types of weapons only get a -1TN from a smartlinkII and nothing from a smartlinkI, and you need a rangefinder. The reason being that grenades are "lobbed" and follow much less of a straight path compared to bullets.
3) No. But see #2. Actually, the quote from the book I'm thinking of is talking about GL more in terms of #3 than #2, but I am interpreting it to apply the same way even if the GL is the only weapon present.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Luke Hardison
post Sep 30 2004, 05:21 PM
Post #3


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 334
Joined: 17-November 03
From: Texas
Member No.: 5,828



MoonHawk is correct. For reference for GL's on other weapons, see the vehicle rigger archetype in SR3 and his gear list in the back. He has a GL mounted under a Defiance.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
GlassJaw
post Sep 30 2004, 05:39 PM
Post #4


Moving Target
**

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 202
Joined: 15-September 04
From: East Providence, RI
Member No.: 6,664



QUOTE
But I think those types of weapons only get a -1TN from a smartlinkII and nothing from a smartlinkI, and you need a rangefinder


Oh yeah, I found it: pg. 31 of M&M.

QUOTE
f you have a GL mounted on a gun, does it need its own smartlink?


I think it does. On pg. 31 of MnM it says: "...for link weapons such as under-barrel grenade launchers..." and "Smartlink-2 systems only work with guns that are smartlink-2-equipped."

I interpret that to mean you need to add a SL-2 to the GL separately even if its added to a gun that already has a SL-2.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
blakkie
post Sep 30 2004, 05:41 PM
Post #5


Dragon
********

Group: Members
Posts: 4,718
Joined: 14-September 02
Member No.: 3,263



It is important to note that you can drastically reduce scatter with the SL2-Rangefinder combo, down to 1d6 from 3d6, by having the SL2 time the grenade detonation to attempt to airburst immediately over top of the target.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Moon-Hawk
post Sep 30 2004, 06:17 PM
Post #6


Genuine Artificial Intelligence
********

Group: Members
Posts: 4,019
Joined: 12-June 03
Member No.: 4,715



I think I agree with you GlassJaw, I think we're just looking at it slightly differently. It depends on whether you consider an assault rifle with an underbarrel grenade launcher one weapon or two.
Let me clarify my previous statement.
If the underbarrel GL comes equipped, as part of the price of the weapon, than equipping it with a smartgun system should account for "both" weapons.
If you're trying to add an underbarrel grenade launcher to a weapon that does not normally have one included in the price, then yes, I agree that the GL has to be equipped with the SG as well, so that all in all you've paid the right amount of money for the whole weapon.
Since the price of the SG is, for some incomprehensible reason, determined by the cost of the gun it is being placed on, this should have very little impact on things.

edit: Blakkie has an excellent point. Probably the single best reason to get a smartgun on a GL. The scatter makes launched granades marginally useless without the smartgun, but with it I rarely see more than a meter or two of scatter.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
RedmondLarry
post Sep 30 2004, 07:07 PM
Post #7


Senior GM
***

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 1,406
Joined: 12-April 03
From: Redmond, WA
Member No.: 4,442



I think that a single Smartlink will be effective for both the Assault Rifle (or Shotgun) and underbarrel Grenade Launcher only under one condition...

... the Grenade Launcher has to be fastened onto the firearm and sighted such that it fires in the same direction.

If you wish the smartlink to control clip ejection, choke adjustment, SA/BF/FA fire selection, safety on/off for both devices, then I expect the player to pay more money. But still he should only need one smartlink connection in the grip.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Bane
post Sep 30 2004, 07:53 PM
Post #8


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 72
Joined: 12-September 04
Member No.: 6,654



QUOTE (GlassJaw)
Just a few questions related to grenade launchers:

Can you mount a GL on guns other than assault rifles (like shotguns)?

Can you add a smartlink to a GL?

If you have a GL mounted on a gun, does it need its own smartlink?

Just in case someone wanted canon clarification on the first point, I believe the reference is in CC, under the gun customization rules for adding an underbarrel weapon. I don't have the book handy, but I believe it can be added to any weapon "rifle-sized or larger." So, if a shotgun is considered rifle-sized...

As for the other two points, I think everything I have to add has already been said.


edit: man, I need to start proof-reading.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
GlassJaw
post Sep 30 2004, 08:18 PM
Post #9


Moving Target
**

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 202
Joined: 15-September 04
From: East Providence, RI
Member No.: 6,664



When defaulting to a weapon skill when firing a underbarrel GL, can you default to a specialization or is it the base skill only?

For example, you have Assault Rifles (AK-98) at 4 (6). If you fire the AK's GL, do you use a rating of 4 or 6?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
GlassJaw
post Sep 30 2004, 08:23 PM
Post #10


Moving Target
**

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 202
Joined: 15-September 04
From: East Providence, RI
Member No.: 6,664



QUOTE
I think that a single Smartlink will be effective for both the Assault Rifle (or Shotgun) and underbarrel Grenade Launcher only under one condition...

... the Grenade Launcher has to be fastened onto the firearm and sighted such that it fires in the same direction.


The thing is though is that the GL is not fired with the same trigger as the mounting weapon, it has it's own trigger or button.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kagetenshi
post Sep 30 2004, 08:27 PM
Post #11


Manus Celer Dei
**********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 17,006
Joined: 30-December 02
From: Boston
Member No.: 3,802



QUOTE (GlassJaw)
When defaulting to a weapon skill when firing a underbarrel GL, can you default to a specialization or is it the base skill only?

For example, you have Assault Rifles (AK-98) at 4 (6). If you fire the AK's GL, do you use a rating of 4 or 6?

You could presumably do either, keeping the increased TN and reduced pool dice in mind.
QUOTE
The thing is though is that the GL is not fired with the same trigger as the mounting weapon, it has it's own trigger or button.


Why is this relevant?

~J
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
GlassJaw
post Sep 30 2004, 08:31 PM
Post #12


Moving Target
**

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 202
Joined: 15-September 04
From: East Providence, RI
Member No.: 6,664



QUOTE
Why is this relevant?


Your induction pad needs to meet up with the smartlink of the weapon. There is a chance you have to move your trigger/smartlink hand to fire the GL. SR3 and the CC refer to GL's as completely separate weapons so I guess I interpret that as meaning they need their own smartlink systems.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kagetenshi
post Sep 30 2004, 08:34 PM
Post #13


Manus Celer Dei
**********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 17,006
Joined: 30-December 02
From: Boston
Member No.: 3,802



I see. Arguable, but for non-post-manufacturing grenade launchers Id tend to disagree.

~J
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
GlassJaw
post Oct 1 2004, 12:25 AM
Post #14


Moving Target
**

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 202
Joined: 15-September 04
From: East Providence, RI
Member No.: 6,664



QUOTE
but for non-post-manufacturing grenade launchers Id tend to disagree


I would agree. :rotate:
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Westiex
post Oct 1 2004, 08:47 AM
Post #15


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 165
Joined: 30-September 04
Member No.: 6,715



QUOTE
When defaulting to a weapon skill when firing a underbarrel GL, can you default to a specialization or is it the base skill only?


Grenade launchers use the launch weapon skill, defaulting to Gunnery. However if the GL is an underbarrel mount you can default to that weapon's skill (such as assault rifle) for a +2 modifier and 1/2 combat pool.

The Ares Antioch (only GL in the SR3 main book) can be sued as wither a weapon by itslef or as an underbarrel mount, in which case it uses a thumb button or seperate trigger.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Accel
post Oct 1 2004, 09:52 AM
Post #16


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 55
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Shibanokuji Freefall Resort
Member No.: 1,043



QUOTE (GlassJaw)
Your induction pad needs to meet up with the smartlink of the weapon.  There is a chance you have to move your trigger/smartlink hand to fire the GL.  SR3 and the CC refer to GL's as completely separate weapons so I guess I interpret that as meaning they need their own smartlink systems.

Well, I suppose, if I get my gunsmith to install some Smartlink electronics afterwards, why shouldn't I get him to link them similar to cyberware devices so the one connection through the main grip suffices? Be the GL factory-installed or later, I see no difference.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Canid13
post Oct 1 2004, 11:40 AM
Post #17


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 278
Joined: 28-September 04
From: The Smoke
Member No.: 6,709



To be honest, I'd say that the GL's smartlink circuitry is linked into the system for the main weapon. I see no reason to move your hand on an Alpha when firing a grenade like you would on a modern day M16/M203 combo. The induction pad would work for both.... which is where the "-1 TN for linked weapons" comes in in my opinion. I'd say that a GL doesn't get the full -2 from a Smartlink 2 system but the -1 mentioned for linked weapons.

To reduce the scatter to 1d6 you need to be firing air timed minigrenades. This means the Grenade Launcher must be Smartlink 2 equipped, and have a Rangefinder accessory and a Grenade Link accessory. The firer must also have Smartlink 2 cyberware with a Rangefinder. If one of these is missing, according to CC and M&M, then you don't get any TN bonuses and you still scatter 3d6 AND the grenade goes off in the Initative Pass after the grenade was fired. I can't give page numbers cos I don't have my books with me, but I can refer ppl to the errata for those books on the srrpg.com site.

Skills: a normal grenade launcher (take the MGL-12 for example), since it's a weapon on its own the only options are Launch Weapons and Intelligence. I'm not aware that you can use Gunnery for defaulting here, but I could be wrong (need my GM screen to look it up :o)). For an Alpha or even the Antioch mounted under a rifle, I'm not sure without Smartlink but you can use the main weapon's skill to default too. This may well apply when no Smartlink is present, I'm not sure.

Let's take the AK98 example mentioned above. If the weapon is Smartlink 2 equipped and has a rangefinder and a grenade link, and the firer has Smart 2 and a rangefinder, then you're looking a TN's for the rifle of Short: 2, Medium: 3, Long: 3 and Extreme:5. For the grenade launcher, I'm 99% sure it's Short: 3, Medium: 4, Long: 6 and Extreme: 6. This is how I do it for my players.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kagetenshi
post Oct 1 2004, 11:58 AM
Post #18


Manus Celer Dei
**********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 17,006
Joined: 30-December 02
From: Boston
Member No.: 3,802



You can default to gunnery. Furthermore, if you stick it onto a vehicle you use gunnery as the main skill and can default to launch weapons.

~J
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 17th April 2024 - 10:15 PM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.