Confused with Drakes, CharGen problem? Options

[JongWK]

I'm going through DotSW for the Nth time since I got it, but I still can't figure out a little problem I have with Drakes.

-Using the BP system (SR Comp)
Do you have to pay extra points for them to be orks or elves? Would they get both the Drake and Ork bonuses?

-Using the Priority system (SR3)
If "Drake" takes the Race slot (at a higher level, obviously), how do make him metahuman?

:wobble:

[Cochise]

[Tanka]

Possible to make them Aspected. Bump Race to A and ignore it. Or keep Magic at A and choose to be Aspected instead. Most GMs will allow it, since otherwise Drakes get screwed out of being Aspected/Adept.

[Cochise]

[Tanka]

It can be better to be Aspected. How so? More Spell Points. Not to mention that some people won't allow PhysMages, so in order to play a PhysAd Drake (ouch), either Race A/Magic B or Magic A/Race B.

[Cochise]

[JongWK]

How about this options for the Priority system:

A: Magic (Full, Aspected or Adept... you choose)
B: Drake (Human)

A: Drake (Metahuman)
B: Magic (Aspected or Adept)

I'm still not sure about Drakes getting both the metahuman and drake bonus at the same time... Think they stack?

[Tanka]

Jong: Icky, ew. What if a meta wants to be full? Might as well give them the finger and laugh in their face.

Cochise: Yes, BP is much better. However, not all GMs allow it, so that kind of screws people over.

[Bane]

A game in which the GM allows you to play a Drake, but does not allow you to use the Building Point system, seems somewhat counterintuitive.

[Artemus]

The whole Drake thing is a mess IMHO. Half the stuff in on Threats 2 the other half on DotSW. Not to mention that the Perception tests have different target numbers between Threats 2 and DotSW (they decreased it by 1).

I think the whole subject is moot, though. Playing a drake to me would be so restricting. You are either running all the time or jumping through hoops for a Great. As a GM I wouldn't allow a character to start off as a Drake.

DotSW says Drakes are priority B. That means that if they want to be anything other than a Human, they can't be a magician or adept. Since one priority is used for being a drake and then an additional priority is used for the metatype. Now if the drake wants to be a full magician per DotSW text, he's out of luck. They don't detail how to handle that through the Priority system.

So in conclusion, unless you are using the Build Point system, starting off as a Drake is very limiting. By the way Jong, are you just curious or is someone/you thinking about creating a drake character?

Unless as a GM you allow the character to double up on a priority. I think that's the only way to do it.

ps: Jong, if you have time to peruse the forums, you should also have time to give me my review... ;).

[Tanka]

As I said, some GMs are screwy. I personally don't know any like that (most say no to BP/Drake/Ghoul/et cetera).

If you have a person who wants to play a Drake, you can easily base a campaign on it. Keeping away from the Greats, or running to their favorite. Working for or against under another. Anything like that.

Hell, played one that worked for Ghostwalker. Oddly enough, I described her appearance as what Ghostwalker's human form is (without ever reading one blurb on him). Ironic, neh?

[Canid13]

According to my copy of DotSW, Drakes use priority B for race and any awakened type is priority A (aspected, adept, mage, shaman, anything).

The second race thing is something I've been thinking about, and I can't come up with anything I'm truly happy with. In the Forth World, drakes were all human. However, these are people with the genetic material for it after 3700 years of breeding with other 'races' so I'd allow someone to play a troll/drake and keep it at priority B - don't see why a meta/drake couldn't be awakened.

After some thought and several re-reads, I've come to the conclusion that the racial bonuses for each form applies in that form only - in other words, no stacking. However, I'd say adept powers and stuff worked on both forms - not soo sure on the dragon related powers but don't see why not - still thinking on armour though :o)

One major difference, is that according to DotSW drakes are not shapeshifters as we know them. They are a new kind, one which is a metahuman first and then changes. And if memory serves, you don't need to assign attribute points seperately like you do for a normal shapeshifter.

I've no problems with my players being drakes - and they've encountered two NPC drakes already. Drakes ain't a major problem in my opinion, though the dragon stuff is kinda sticky it's a challenge for the player to come up with something and then we tweak it into a backstory.

[RedmondLarry]

Canid13, great evaluation and great presentation. Very clear and well thought out. I agree on all your points except Drake abilities working in human form.

I particularly agree with the no stacking of metahuman mods and Drake mods to physical attributes. For example, a Troll/Drake doesn't get +2 reach when in Drake Form. And the Troll's dermal armor doesn't count when in Drake Form.

During character design you don't allocate attribute points across 9 attributes (like a shapeshifter), only 6.

I'll add the following positions:
Bred Drakes should get 6 points of natural armor (impact and ballistic) when in Drake Form, even though DotSW left this out.

Drake abilities only work in Drake Form. (flame, vision, hearing, etc.)

Karma Costs for skill and attribute increases are all based off the (meta)human attributes, not the Drake attributes.

Drakes can use Reaction as their claw-to-claw melee combat skill.

In (meta)human form, Drake characters do not have a +2 penalty when Astrally Perceiving, because they are naturally dual natured.

[Canid13]

OurTeam, I agree completely on all points. However, I could allow a drake to use Edged Weapons or Unarmed combat to make claw attacks in dracoform. The way I see it, if other skills work in dracoform or metaform then why not unarmed or edged?

[Kagetenshi]

Unarmed, yes. Claws aren't used remotely similar to edged weapons. Cyber-implant combat would be more arguable.

~J

[JongWK]

[PiXeL01]

Sadly my group consists of several munchins you would do anything to grind out more points and more advantages.
Recently one of my players came to me and asked if he could create a drake which was also a mage. My response was "sure, go away if you are ready to be hunted like a rabid dog". Next question was if he was allowed to use the priority system instead of the BP system for his drake ... Since he wanted to create (listen to this one) an albino Dwarf-Drake he would save alot of points through the priority system instead of using the BP system.
My responce to him was race - A if you want to be a meta-drake and magic .. now you have to choose.

Guess my point is ... IMHO you should only allow the use of Shapeshifters, Drakes, Meta-variants and Ghouls if you use the BP system ...

...

I would rule you could your unarmed skill for claw/bite attacks, just with a few penalties if we are talking about a newly "awakened" drake

[snowRaven]

[Just Jonny]

With regards to doubling up for priorities, I'd think it could be done via Sum to 10 character creation rules in the priority system.

[D.Generate]

I'm so sick of all this Drake crap, pesonally i think its the dumbest thing they ever did to shadowrun. Its getting to the point where its like DnD with guns.

As a gm i would laugh in the face of any player who wanted to make a drake since even reading about them i get the impression that there are so few of them in the world that its likely 99% of the entire world population would ever see a drake. And why would a creature like that run in the shadows?

I'm sorry players should not be drakes, an npc drake maybe but no player should be allowed to make one the fact that they even give hint at the option to be one just makes my blood boil.

[Tanka]

[Canid13]

Snowraven, the DotSW entry for drakes implies that the drake bonuses are racial and don't stack. I guess it's up to a GM how he wants to play this.