Manaball, Valid targets for mana spells Options

[Brazila]

I was discussing this point with another player in my game and thought it would make an interesting post. ...
If a mage were astrally perceiving and cast a manaball at an opponent, and the target had active foci/spells, then they would all be valid targets for the spell. i think everyone would agree with that call, but I have never actually seen a GM do that in a game. I don't think the players or GM thought about the foci they had on and only living targets had to resist. I was just wondering if this has ever happened in anyone else's games, and if they made the foci/spells resist too?

[GrinderTheTroll]

Mana spells only effect living targets though. I don't think it would have any effect.

I already asked about blowing up people's foci once before and got run outta town. :eek:

[RedmondLarry]

One way to destroy a focus with magic is to hit it with a Mana spell doing Physical (not Stun damage) on either the astral or physical plane.

[Cochise]

[Jason Farlander]

Right... so, clothing conceals the auras of foci, but not of the people wearing them? What makes the auras of foci different from that of anything else, such that draping cloth over them is effective protection from spells, when doing so doesn't afford that protection to anything else? (/me doesn't buy it)

[Kanada Ten]

You can't target something just because you can see part of its aura.

[Jason Farlander]

Immaterial. Regardless of "how far the aura radiates past the clothing" or "how much of the aura do you see" or any other such undefined arbitrary qualities, it is simply true that draping a blanket over a (meta)human does not protect that (meta)human from spells cast from either the astral or physical plane. Why should doing the exact same thing to a focus actually end up protecting the focus from targeting?

[Brazila]

I think this is going into a whole other argument, that has been had a thousand times here. My point was just that foci that can be seen would be valid targets for the spell, and that I have never seen that come into play. You can argue the whole valid target/not valid target because it is under my shirt point till your blue in the dice, but allowing that could create such cheese and unbalance, I for one will say no way. Other wise, everyone will be running around in full body ninja outfits to hide their auras from spell targeting....and as funny as that could be it would get really old reallly quick.

[Kanada Ten]

[Fygg Nuuton]

LOS is you can physically see them (on the physical plane)

if you see them through glass or fiber optics it counts, because you see them enough to know they are there.

if they are under a blanket, you still know they are there, so it works

thats my interpretation

[Eyeless Blond]

I can see the guard. He just ducked behind the wall, and I can see his face through the security camera next to me, through my Clairvoyance spell, and through the electronic magnification in my cybereyes. I can see him, I know he's there, but I still can't target him.

Try again? :)

[SilverWolf_assas...]

Here is where I would house-rule like the DOG I am.

I would declare the foci as part of the person (when it is on their person) just like cyberware. It is worth too much money and karma to just blow it up. I would however, allow a dispel magic roll treated as force equal to double karma spent on bonding.

That would make it less then impossible but extremely improbable for anything larger then a spirit focus. The power and weapon foci, those things that can be worth up into the millions easy and cost an entire character his lifetime supply of karma, those would be near untouchable.

SKWN a.k.a. "skin", Vodoo/face
"Looken for a good time?"

[Edward]

Perhaps we should consider the case assuming that the focus is visible and just read threw the fortnightly threads on focuses under clothing to realise we are not going to sole that any time soon.

Will a mana ball cast on ether the astral or physical plane affect a focus that can be seen? If so what effect would masking the focus have?

Edward

[Kanada Ten]

[Fortune]

[Brazila]

I think that the mana ball would still effect it, but could see argument against that too.

[Edward]

You would not target something with a mana bolt you did not know to be a focus but a mina ball is aria effect and must affect everything within the aria to witch you have LOS regardless of wether or not you noticed it friend, ally or innocent bystander.
Of cause y the same token a fireball would do serious damage to most clothing but I have never seen that modelled in SR ether. Have you ever seen burns associated with polymer clothing. Never fun.

Edward

[Canid13]

I take it the damage to the focus (condition monitor boxes) remains but the Force 'regenerates' or does the condition monitor empty as well every Combat Turn?

My take on the issue is that a bolt would need to be targeted at the focus, but a ball would do the job regardless. The FAQ on the official website does speak about not hitting targets in an area of effect and how dangerous to the caster that can be.

And besides, if the focus gets nuked, it can still be re-enchanted :o)

[Fortune]

But Magic is supposed to be subjective on the part of the caster. If he doesn't recognise the Focus' existance as something to be affected by the Manaball, then it could be argued that his spell would not affect the Focus.

[RedmondLarry]

[Jason Farlander]

[Fortune]

That's just playing games with the concept though. :P

I think my example is valid. I'm not really trying to munch anything. I'm merely asking if, according to the casting mage, the Focus would be a valid target.

[Jason Farlander]

I dont think it matters that much. I think it is more important that the focus is there, that (active) foci are valid targets for mana-based spells, and that the mage has LOS to the focus than that the mage has explicit knowledge that every object is a valid target. I don't think whether the mage actually knows, on a case-by-case basis, whether a specific target is valid will affect the outcome of a spell.

[Edward]

[Necro Tech]

Everyone but the stealth monster and security mage. If you can see a target it is valid. Anything that is not actively hiding can be seen. Both invisibility and ruthenium are actively hiding someone. Astrally perceive and gank them all. Stupid ninjas.

On a related note, an astrally perceiving caster who has assensed a target with 3 active and 3 non-active foci and casts manaball, they will get the target and the three active foci. Anything that can been seen with either vision gets you LOS and a roasted and probably poorer awakened character.