 Channeling, What spirits can you channel |
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 Oct 7 2004, 12:18 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 158 Joined: 19-March 03 From: Central IL Member No.: 4,278  |
I don't have my books with me, so forgive me, if there is an obvious answer to this, but I was wondering if there is a limit on what spirits you can channel. One of my PCs was talking about channeling a watcher, which I thought was crazily pimped, and said that I was sure there was a rule against it, but he said he could find nothing in the book on it. Or what about an ally spirit, you lose all remaining services when you channel but ally's don't have "services" so that could be cheesed too then??
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Oct 7 2004, 12:23 AM
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#2
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
it's a technicality, but Channelling is described as working on any spirit that owes services to the mage. watchers work on a time basis, not a services basis, ergo...
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Oct 7 2004, 01:38 AM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 241 Joined: 20-September 04 Member No.: 6,682 |
:: grins :: there was a terrible, terrible glitch involving this and blood spirits, which I believe do technically owe service to the mage.... though I am not sure, thinking about it, if this is truly legitimate given that they also have no specific service count, that I can think of.
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Oct 7 2004, 01:43 AM
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#4
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
bzzzzt! shoulda used a lifeline, zen. blood spirits use services just like elementals and nature spirits. MitS page 134, third sentence under Summoning Blood Spirits.
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Oct 7 2004, 01:47 AM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 241 Joined: 20-September 04 Member No.: 6,682 |
:: laughs :: so I'm lazy and optimistic. I really wanted to believe that they'd seen channeled blood spirits coming.
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Oct 7 2004, 01:49 AM
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#6
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
*shudder* not only have i seen it coming, i've (or, well, one of my characters has) seen it arrive.
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Oct 7 2004, 01:55 AM
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#7
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Target Group: Members Posts: 26 Joined: 5-October 04 Member No.: 6,728 |
Braz,
Don't let them use watchers or allied spirits. If not for game effect, for balance. SlotJOCKEY, ultimate utility character "I am just here to teach the children" |
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Oct 7 2004, 02:18 AM
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#8
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Let them use Watchers, but divide their intelligence by 10 minus Watcher's force, to a minimum of division by two.
~J |
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Oct 7 2004, 02:30 AM
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#9
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
eh? why?
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Oct 7 2004, 02:33 AM
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#10
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I would assume to reflect a Watcher's inherent stupidity.
, I think a good rule is to allow a Spirit to be Channeled only if they actually owe a Service, as mentioned above. |
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Oct 7 2004, 02:54 AM
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#11
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,049 Joined: 24-March 03 Member No.: 4,323 |
You can't channel watchers, because they dont owe services - they exist for specific timespans. Note that the things that watchers can do are specifically labeled as "tasks" rather than "services."
Fortune: not only is that a good rule, that is the canon rule. Pg 109, T:AL "The initiate must have a spirit that owes him services present in astral space and have it come into contact with his aura." |
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Oct 7 2004, 03:06 AM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 241 Joined: 20-September 04 Member No.: 6,682 |
<stupidity>
What if you told your Ally spirit to believe it owed you a service? In Harlequin's Back it specifically states that the way a character beliefs and views on magic directly affects his\her\its interaction with it. </stupidity> |
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Oct 7 2004, 03:08 AM
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#13
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,049 Joined: 24-March 03 Member No.: 4,323 |
I think you would also have to convince *yourself* that this lie you just made up is true. Which could be difficult.
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Oct 7 2004, 03:35 AM
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#14
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I didn't recall the actual canon wording...thanks. :) I do seem to recall quite a few heated Dumpshock debates (on the old forums?) about Channeling Ally Spirits, but I don't remember this specific ruling being introduced to the argument. If it had been, quite a few flames could have been avoided, as it's pretty cut-and-dried. |
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Oct 7 2004, 03:36 AM
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#15
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
as i recall, it was mentioned several times. didn't do much flame-quelling.
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Oct 7 2004, 04:19 AM
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#16
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Blame my onsetting senility. :P
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Oct 7 2004, 09:50 AM
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#17
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Is the question, Alex, "what is use #23 for casting Alter Memory on yourself"? :wobble: |
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Oct 7 2004, 10:09 AM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 278 Joined: 28-September 04 From: The Smoke Member No.: 6,709 |
I'd personally not allow an Ally spirit to be used for channeling, but I guess that's my own view on it.
And Watchers, that's a no-no. One thought though, could a psionic mage channel a thought form? MITS states that the Psionic is limited by what he thinks is doable with the powers of the mind. Well, if they can conjur then they have no problems with that, and I personally don't see why a thought form couldn't be channeled - think of it as an ally lending you his strength to fight a specific foe. |
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Oct 7 2004, 10:23 AM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 241 Joined: 20-September 04 Member No.: 6,682 |
:: bows before Blakkie:: nice shot, mate.
I think I'd allow channeling of thought forms, because frankly psions get gimped hard enough as it is, and really deserve some small bit of power. |
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Oct 7 2004, 01:25 PM
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#20
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Mr. Quote-function Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,312 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Somewhere in Germany Member No.: 1,376 |
Just my 0.02¥:
1. Watchers do not owe services => no channeling them 2. Allies do not explicitly owe "services" (as game term) either. But they must obey any order their master gives to them, which can be seen as an infinite number of services until they gain freedom or are banished. A mage wants to channel his ally: Sure go ahead. The powers of allies are meager in comparison to other spirits (3D movement sucks in comparison to a levitate spell, immunity normal weaposn is provided by any spirit that can be channeled, mind link won't work, just as materialization) and to top it all: Once the channeling ends, all owed services are used up, the spirit becomes "free" and thus may either return to his metaplane or become a "free spritit" => Extremely "safe" way of setting your ally free 3. Bound "free spirits". They explicitly owe an infinite number of services. But what's true for allies is true for them as well: They'll automatically become free after channeling end. Given the fact that the majority of bound "free spirits" hold a serious grudge against their master (who stole their freedom), this is going to be a rather dangerous thing, since once the spirit has regained his freedom he cannot be rebound by the same magaician ever after ... So options 2 and 3 should only be the last resort, when everything else fails |
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Oct 7 2004, 01:34 PM
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#21
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
If you were quick you could just rebind the free spirit.
~J |
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Oct 7 2004, 01:38 PM
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#22
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
thought forms owe services, so there shouldn't be anything preventing a psion from channelling it, if the psion knows channelling. just think of it as reinforcing the flesh with psionic power.
i don't think the master could re-bind the spirit. once the master releases a free spirit, he can never bind it again. the question is, does using up all of its services, infinite though they may be, count as releasing it? |
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Oct 7 2004, 01:58 PM
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#23
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I also forgot to mention: your argument for Allies applies to Watchers as well. ~J |
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Oct 7 2004, 02:13 PM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 278 Joined: 28-September 04 From: The Smoke Member No.: 6,709 |
Actually no. Immunity/Normal Weapons only comes from Great Form spirits. It is explicitly mentioned in the rules. And it's only Force, not twice Force as usual. Still, it means you get to Grade 2 and conjur a Great Form Force 6 Fire Elemental with +1 Reach. Then you channel it and gain the normal powers of the spirit (including immunity to fire) and cos it's a Great Form you gain hardened armour 6/6 which adds directly to worn armour AND +1 Reach and +6 to all your physical stats. Talk about your nasty combatants. |
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Oct 7 2004, 02:15 PM
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#25
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Hermetic Troll combat mage with dikoted polearm, anyone?
~J |
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